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Lithium 18S Wire Bend

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2K views 10 replies 5 participants last post by  Recovering_Gasaholic 
#1 ·
Hello fellow Insighters!
I received my lithium modules from Bumblebee a week ago to find a fairly nice bend in the 18S batteries. The 12S survived perfectly. As a mechanical engineer, I find electrons mysterious, and I also know that the electrical engineers that I've worked with don't like bends in their cables. So, I have a few questions:
Is there an acceptable minimum bend radius for these wires? Or another binary test to know if this is useable?
Since these have not caught fire yet, what risk is there if I use these harnesses as is? I know for one, the more a wire is cycled, the more it will do funny things, so I know I need to bend it as little as possible if used.
Thanks in advance,
Jeremy

Automotive tire Wood Office equipment Electrical wiring Engineering
 
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#4 ·
@Bull Dog is correct: These cables are fine.

FYI: Bend radius is most important on cables with an outer overmolded jacket, which limits the amount of slip that can occur between wires. This causes the grouped wires to act more like a single wire, hence bending below the specified radius can cause the copper to tear, and/or the insulation to open.

Since there's no overmolded outer jacket on these EHW5 modules, the individual wires are free to move about as they please; they are only minimally impeded by the braided sleeve (under the orange electrical tape). Therefore, the minimum bend radii would be essentially the per-wire specification, which is probably a few mm. So there's absolutely no worry that the bends in the picture you posted are problematic.

Wait until you see the bend radius when it's installed in your pack! :)
 
#6 ·
The bend in these photos doesn't concern me. However, I am concerned about the fact it happened at all and how the packs are packaged and shipped.

A while back I bought some of these 18S packs off an eBay seller, and they were in their stock shipping packaging (as shown in FlyingHood's photos). This packaging is only designed for the batteries to be stacked on a pallet and handled gently. When shipped individually, they get tossed around and the internal packaging crumples. This allows the batteries to slide back and forth during shipping, crushing the balance connector as it hits the ends of the box. Mine arrived in a long box and were stood vertical against my house!

In the extreme case, as what happened to me, part of the balance connector was shattered from being smashed by the metal studs and tabs on the battery endplate. The bare pins were exposed and touching each other. Thankfully, it was the two unused pins (I'm not sure what the wires go to but it's not to the cells). If the other end of the connector had been smashed, some of the cells would have shorted through the balance leads and probably caught the box on fire.
A second module's connector wasn't so badly damaged, but it has clear dents in it. It's still usable at least.

@Eli PLEASE open these boxes and put some rigid foam on either end of the battery so it would be unable to slide around. The packaging is not intended for general shipping and does not hold up.
 
#8 ·
I'm guessing these weren't shipped via a freight carrier? Legally, each individual module needs to be wrapped in plastic if it's going to be shipped non-freight options. Somebody should tell bumblebee battery that they may be violating serious regulations.

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#9 ·
I'm not familiar with the "wrapped in plastic" regulation you mentioned. The requirements I'm familiar with are that the modules must be insulated from each other, and must be placed in approved shipping containers, which would include the double cardboard box.

I agree that there should be a stiffener to prevent the batteries from sliding into the cable, but I don't believe any law is actually being broken.

You should see how the 'other' battery shipper is shipping FoMoCo modules... now that's a problematic endeavor.
 
#10 ·
You might be right that it could just be that they need to be insulated from each other. A local third party shipping company told me they had to be individually wrapped but maybe they just meant electrically insulated.

When I shipped them, I added extra more close cell polyethylene foam. And then wrapped them multiple times in shipping wrap.

My FoMoCo modules arrived by freight with a number of G3 modules stacked on top. I do not recall them being individually insulated. I believe the pallet was well marked and that the freight company was well-informed of the dangers of the lithium.

I feel like freight is a lot safer because there is less machine handling but of course it is almost impossible to pack these things in a way that would survive substantial forklift operator error.
 
#11 ·
I think this might be the right regulation:

(2) Lithium cells or batteries, includ-
ing lithium cells or batteries packed
with, or contained in, equipment, must
be packaged in a manner to prevent:
(i) Short circuits;
(ii) Movement within the outer pack-
age; and
(iii) Accidental activation of the
equipment.
(3) For packages containing lithium
cells or batteries offered for transpor-
tation:
(i) The lithium cells or batteries
must be placed in non-metallic inner
packagings that completely enclose
the cells or batteries, and separate the
cells or batteries from contact with
equipment, other devices, or conduc-
tive materials (e.g., metal) in the pack-
aging.
(ii) The inner packagings containing
lithium cells or batteries must be
placed in one of the following pack-
agings meeting the requirements of
part 178, subparts L and M, of this sub-
chapter at the Packing Group II level:
(A) Metal (4A, 4B, 4N), wooden (4C1,
4C2, 4D, 4F), fiberboard (4G), or solid
plastic (4H1, 4H2) box;
(B) Metal (1A2, 1B2, 1N2), plywood
(1D), fiber (1G), or plastic (1H2) drum;
(C) Metal (3A2, 3B2) or plastic (3H2)
jerrican.
 
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