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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 2000 M/T Insight w/ ~192,000 miles. I'm having a large loss of power with bucking (misfires). On the highway going up a hill I can't keep my speed up much higher than 50-60 mph and it has to be in third gear at over 3000rpm's.

I had the obdII codes read which are

P0336 "Crankshaft Position Sensor""A"" Circuit Range/Performance"
P1167 and P1162 "O2 Sensor A no signal"
P1399 ??
P0300 Random Misfires
P0301 + P0302 + P0303 All three Cylinders misfiring

I have replaced the LAF O2 Sensor with a Honda OEM one, and now the car idles harder than it did before, kind of struggles to stay above 1000 RPM.I haven't taken it for a test drive yet but I doubt that will be any better. But that "Should" at least have taken care of the P1167 and P1162 codes.

As for the P0336 I tested the crankshaft position sensor per a guide for this car that I got from a mechanic. I was suppose to get an ohms reading from the sensor of about 2000 Ohms (don't have the guide in front of me atm, so I don't have the specific numbers to post) and the sensor was within range. There is still more I can look at for this such as getting into testing the resistance of various pins on the ECM, but I don't know where it is.

Does anyone have any idea what is causing all of this? Could this have anything to do with the EGR valve that I have read so much about? What about the timing belt/chain? If the ECM was failing or dead wouldn't I have other problems? Also if anyone is wondering my IMA light is not on.

Any help would be appreciated, and sorry if I sound like I'm rambling, I work nights and have been up since 12:30 yesterday afternoon :p
 

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The misfires are probably caused by P0336 "Crankshaft Position Sensor""A"" Circuit Range/Performance" since the ECM does not always know the current rotation position of the crankshaft in order to produce proper timing of spark for each cylinder.

The ECM is located under a kick panel where the passenger's feet would rest. Accoring to the service manual, terminals C8 and C9 on ECM connector C (31P) is where you would measure the resistance value. Acceptable range is 1850 - 2450 ohms. Measuring at this area will insure that the ECM is receiving the sensor output.

JoeCVT - Just your average CVT owner
 

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I concur with joe on this.

I concur with Joe, if the engine does not know where the crank is it could lead to the timing problem he has mentioned, I suppose it could also mean the IMA system smoothing pulses are also out of sync or missing leading to a rougher engine. :(

Has the car been steadily detiorating?

Or did all the problems occur at once? Which appeared first?

The EGR may have a problem, but does not usually set an error code unless it's a total failure, it usually just get's slightly rougher and rougher over several thousand miles.

Until the other issues with def fault codes are fixed the symptoms of a failing egr will be masked by the more serious problems IMO.

I don't see it as a cam chain issue either, these are reported as very long lived, if it had been sloppy/worn enough to cause such serious problems it would probably have destroyed itself and the engine by now in a total failure :shock:

Please keep us updated with actions/results, this benefits everyone on the site.

Thanks Peter :)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Okay I was trying to find the 31P connector (I have a digram for the pin layout of it) but I couldn't find it. Then I saw he mentioned passenger side kick panel, ug it's just not my day, I'll look in the morning when it's light again.

This sort of just happened out of the blue. I did have some hesitation and kicking once in a while before but after giving it more gas it seemed to go away for that trip. This also only seemed to happen when there was more moisture in the air. I have had my CEL on for while and I know it was the O2 sensor, after reading that it could mess up the CAT I guess I should have replaced that far sooner. Things got really bad half way through my drive to work one day, the car was driving fine for the first 25 miles (new england hilly highway) then suddenly the jerking came and I was having problems getting up hills. I only drove it for three more days like that and nothing improved. I figured the O2 sensor was a known issue so I would give that a go first. I drove it around a bit today and no improvement after replacing the sensor, but I didn't get it to a place to read the current codes.

I did forget to mention in my last post that the CEL flashes when the car is struggling then stops when it is running fine. Also, and this contradicts the egr theory, I think when the car is in lean burn on level ground with a light load on it, it does not have this issue. Just seems like if something was dead it would be continuous.

Thanks for the help
 

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When the CEL flashes it's extremely bad and engine damage may occur fairly quickly.

Today I changed my spark plugs, when I was done I turned the car on and it was idling very rough, after a few seconds the CEL light started to flash. :shock: so I turned the car off right away.
I went to look under the hood again and checked the connectors I realized I forgot to plug in the connector for the spark plug on the right side. The car was fine after that.
If the car is misfiring engine damage can occur if driven that way, specially since it only has 3 cylinders.
 

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Being as how these problems have been happening for the past 50,000 miles. I would start with the sparkplugs first. The recommended mileage for the plugs is 100,000. (The cheapest thing first)

Then go to the coils, as appaently you have a cracked one.

Then hook up a fuel pressure gauge to the fuel supply and see what the psi reading is. (Prior to the regulator)

Then maybe post where you live and maybe a fellow Insighter can help.
HTH

Willie
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Willie Williford said:
Being as how these problems have been happening for the past 50,000 miles. I would start with the sparkplugs first. The recommended mileage for the plugs is 100,000. (The cheapest thing first)

Then go to the coils, as appaently you have a cracked one.

Then hook up a fuel pressure gauge to the fuel supply and see what the psi reading is. (Prior to the regulator)

Then maybe post where you live and maybe a fellow Insighter can help.
HTH

Willie
The jumping once in a while was happening before the last time I changed the plugs. But as I mentioned in another post I did not realize each cylinder had it's own letter stamp so I'm running all A plugs as that is what my first cylinder was using. I'll get new ones when I order my next set of parts.

I was thinking the coils could be the next set of suspect parts as they look like they are still the original coil packs (I'm the 2nd owner). Just if they are failing would they act like this? Like I said the engine only has problems when a load is placed on it, the rpm's don't seem to matter and in most cases the higher the rpm's the better it runs. Also is there anyway of testing them before ording three of them at about $150 each?

Just so you guys know I'm getting my parts from alldiscountparts.com they seem to be able to get everything for the insight and cheaper than from Honda. And yes they are all OEM Honda parts.
 

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Catalytic Converters

I just bought a 2000 Insight on eBay. It has about 53k miles and while driving it home, I had the same symptoms you are describing. They continued for about 500 miles then the emissions light came on. Both catalytic converters needed to be replaced ($1500 for the parts, plus a few hrs of labor). The guts of the catalytic converters had clogged the muffler, so the exhaust system from the cat back had to be replaced ($370 plus labor). All of this was covered under the 8/80k warranty (as was my rental car).
 

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Re: "alldiscountparts.com"
They don't show having O2 sensors on there website. Did you get yours from there? If so, url please.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
JakkedUp said:
Re: "alldiscountparts.com"
They don't show having O2 sensors on there website. Did you get yours from there? If so, url please.
I can't link the url because of how there site works with searches. If you select the model and year and all of that, then in the search field that says part number or keyword, type " oxygen sensor " and about four of the same thing come up for me. If you don't trust you will be ordering the right part, just give them a call, the guys there are nice and will find what you are looking for.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Okay today I finally got my latest parts in. I don't like what I found but it has turned out good,... sort of.

I found my center coil pack was sticking out of it's socket by about a half an inch. Some of the plastic on the under side of the pack was melted and the metal where the bolt holds the pack in place broke, making the bolt stay but the pack become loose. One other coil pack had some melting and all three looked very messed up, rusted and cracking. About a month before these issues came about I was broken down on the side of the road with a hole in my radiator. I noticed the heat gauge was all the way up so I promptly pulled over. I ended up being towed home. I was able to fix the leak with some stuff I found at Auto Zone, this had worked very well on my old 1991 Honda Civic, but I'm not sure if it will hold that long on this hole. I also discovered I do not have heat. On top of that I had an unusualy low amount of oil in the engine!! I topped that off and have been checking it every few days since this happened and it is holding, so I'm wondering what happened to my oil in the first place.

So anyway my thoughts are the Coil packs, other than already having some wear, were melted from the over heating thus causing one to pop out. I looked over the sockets and did not see any damage. I was alarmed that the middle spark plug was a bit looser than I would have expected but I could not find anything wrong with the threading, and my new plug seems to be in fine.

So today I got three new coil packs and three new spark plugs. Popped them in and the car runs great. I had my battery disconnected while I worked on it, so once I had everything back together my CEL was cleared and didn't come back after a little drive around.

Now the bad news is as I was driving to work tonight, suddenly my CEL came back on with my IMA light, all charging and assist stopped and my battery quickly drained to one bar. I tried resetting it by just restarting the car but still no IMA. The car more or less ran fine for the rest of the trip other wise and I even was able to maintain 58 mpg. When I leave work I'll try disconnecting the battery again (the 12v) and see if the IMA comes back and if I get this issue again, I'll also stop at Auto Zone and see if I can get my codes read. Any further help on this new issue would be appreciated, thanks.

I'll be posting pics of the bad coils when I get a chance.
 
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