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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited by Moderator)
This thread is for comments, questions, and answers regarding LTO Battery usage. Most of us who have already completed or started LTO conversations have probably created our individual build threads. It was suggested to not clutter those build threads with too much unrelated material, so this should help along those lines.
Moderator Note: This thread was originally started by gts8650. Richard's post and a few others were moved from another thread and because they were made before this thread was started, the forum placed them above gts8650's opening post. Sorry about the confusion. Bull Dog - InsightCentral Moderator.


Looking forward to following your progress Peter. Of the half dozen or so conversions to date I don’t believe anybody has fully used your IMA/OBDIIC&C to make a PEHV.

I have a Lean Burn CVT with a bumblebee and your OBDII/IMAC&C. I also have 96 LTO cells waiting for install.

Question for you in regards to the battery capacity and range. With a 84 cell set up charged to 220 volts how long would you estimate a constant 15-20 amp assist would be available?

15 amps of assist will bump my FCD from 75 to 100 mpg at 60 mph. With my bumblebee I’m only able to hold this for about 5 minutes before the battery is depleted.

I’m averaging 70 mpg for my 90 mile commute. Is it realistic to think LTO could bump me to 90+ mpg?

Best of luck with customs, looking g forward to your progress updates and seeing what you can do with these cells.
 

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If the cells are fully charged then 20ah will give you 20amps for 1hr. Or 10amps for 2hrs. But unless you have a cell level BMS you won't want to empty them completely. So say 45 mins at 20A. Of course in hot areas the ima motor might not like sustained 4kw+ assist for long periods. You might have to install motor temperature monitoring. There are many variables to be considered.
 

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I’m operating 84-cells as a PEHV. My commute is 20 miles each way. Target for the 40-mile roundtrip is 90-95mpg and 10ah. This gives a 10hr charge time at 1a on the Genesis. Charging starts at about 187v and cutoff is 215v. Voltage settles to 213v, so there is minimal chance of exceeding 220v with excessive regen early in the commute. I have charged to 220v prior to a long trip, but extra care is needed! Any regen braking and the ghost of the BCM replacer appears and she screams at you. You’d better pay attention! Too much above 220v for too many seconds and watch the dash lights for signs the 12v battery is dying and the ICE is about to shutdown! If the DC-DC is disabled, pull over and shutdown immediately to give time for the voltage to settle down. At least that has been my very limited experience with pushing the limits. Having a stronger battery with higher voltage and more capacity is like all good things. The more you have, the more you want. After experiencing that, you never want to go back.
 

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@gts8650. Off topic, but.........someone needs to start a thread on revised driving techniques with the big LTO packs. This thread is already diverging and I doubt Peter will long appreciate this.;)
1. What speed are you driving,
2. Any stop/go in the commute,
3. Sounds like you are using a constant assist level. Have you tried managing the assist manually to perhaps strike a better mix of ICE and pseudo PEHV.
 

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In response to Jime:

1. What speed are you driving,
2. Any stop/go in the commute,
3. Sounds like you are using a constant assist level. Have you tried managing the assist manually to perhaps strike a better mix of ICE and pseudo PEHV.

My commute into center Charlotte is primarily on the I-77S general-purpose lanes for which the new multiyear, multimillion $$$ TOLL lanes have provided very little relief. There are very few days where interstate traffic is not backed up and completely stopped at least once or twice along the route. Therefore the short answer to driving speed is 0 - 75 mph on the interstate followed by stop/go within the city limits.

A hard-wired IMAC&C was used for over 5 years, but Peter converted that to P&P with 30% current hack along BCM replacer whenever we did the LTO conversion at InsightFest. After getting used to the new setup, I absolutely love it! Proportional control on the joystick, along with ample battery capacity, creates a whole new driving experience.

Driving techniques will vary according to individual preferences, local road conditions, traffic conditions, etc. My driving techniques with the LTOs are very much different than they used to be, and they are still evolving.

The following is typical for my daily commute. With hands off, the joystick's usually set to either neutral, one notch up, in the 3a assist range, or two notches up, in about 17a assist range. Assist doesn’t remain ticked up at these settings very long because proportional A/R occurs often, negating the uptick settings.

Proportional regen/assist can be anywhere according to changing conditions of traffic, grade, and LB/purge cycles. Assist from 0 - 20a, and occasionally higher for short periods, is used to maintain lean burn. Lean burn can be maintained during slight, momentary speed reductions by maintaining a little throttle along with the regen. When someone forces a merge, it may be a case of momentary 40a regen immediately followed by momentary 60a assist all the while maintaining the same throttle position and lean burn. I like to stay ahead of things with regen as to not heat up the brake pads. Slow down a little more than required with regen in a higher gear, giving time to downshift and continue regen in a lower gear. Only a little brake pad heating is required for a complete stop. During purge cycles, I may accelerate, especially when on an incline, using both increased throttle and assist. Speed builds enough by the end of the 10 sec purge that LB can be maintained for up 2 minutes of LB with minimum assist. If lucky and the purge occurs on a decline with adequate speed, then engine-on coasting can be used during LB. If it's a longer decline, engine-off coasting may be used. If it's a sustained steeper negative grade and/or traffic slowdown, then regen for speed control follows the engine-off coasting. There are many variables and it might be a little fuzzy as to what might work best. There may be several PHEV FE ICE/Electric techniques, beyond my understanding, that work equally well.
 

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Good thread.
1. What speed are you driving,
2. Any stop/go in the commute,
3. Sounds like you are using a constant assist level. Have you tried managing the assist manually to perhaps strike a better mix of ICE and pseudo PEHV.

Most of the configurations so far, though 4-5X the standard pack capacity are still short of a PHEV level - seems to me. Even so, from the above it is clear that substantial fuel savings are possible if the pack energy is used in a judicious fashion.

It occurs to me that perhaps even more overall efficiency can be achieved if the battery energy is use in an intermittent fashion.
 

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You're a good man "Charlie Brown" and obviously smarter with the new system. Send me a conversation outlining how you got the posts moved intact and in time sequence :)
 
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