[ericbecky]

Well, for fun I slid my lithium modules into my test pack and ran some test wires to prove it fits and get some ideas for amount of wiring needed.

This is a 48s setup.
12s in bay #1
18s in bay #2
18s in bay #3

Didn't take long to do.

I went slow and followed John's video.

While the video isn't concise, you can glean everything you need to know.

My pack is fine for looking at and maybe a very light drive around the block, but it is not correct for many, many reasons. (I started the list below and easily found 5*)

And since there really isn't any BCM input/output communication with the car, it actually can't fully work in the car, but it's cool to see none the less.

Here's more discussion fleshing out the hardware/software side of this project that is still in progress.

G1 Honda Insight Lithium BMS Discussion

@retepsnikrep and I are considering designing a simple battery management system that supports Honda's 3rd generation Insight lithium battery packs. We've discovered that these packs mechanically fit in the G1's OEM IMA battery bay, which makes them an IDEAL candidate for simple lithium...

www.insightcentral.net

These are modules that are from 2018/2019 Honda Accord hybrid lithium Battery packs. Same modules are found in the 2019 Honda Insight as well.

* Problems with mock up. Don't do it like this!
Wrong sized wire
Wrong type of wire
Wires not properly run through the case
Wires not protected with sheathing
Modules not secured in case

 

[Rainsux]

Nice!

Sam

 

[olrowdy01]

I'm very interested in this thread but I'm having trouble seeing the full size of the 6 pictures. One pix in particular had a message at the top of a black screen that said the image has errors.

The video is fine.

 

[eprom]

Hi, I am about to buy a used 2018 honda accord battery.
Can you tell me exactly what it contains?

From the total voltage, I deduce that they must contain 2 18s and 3 12s batteries, but I am not sure.
I would like to know the polarity of the 18+ or 18- 12+ or 12- batteries

The polarity is particularly important since this year the cells are welded, therefore not modifiable.

 

[LowCarbon]

Well, on page 10 of this document

https://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/pubs/web/2018%20Accord%20Hybrid%20ERG%20Final-E.pdf

it says that the pack has 72 cells. That sounds like 4 18s packs to me. Are you sure they're welded together? They didn't do that with the G3 Insight packs.

 

[eprom]

Unless i'm wrong
The EH5 was a battery with a bolt on each cell.
The EHW5 are the same battery but cell welded together.
Based on the attached document, the EH5 was replaced by the EHW5 in 2016

I assumed that there are 12s and 18s in the 2018 honda accord because @ericbecky used the batteries of this car model for its conversion (mention at the beginning of this thread)
That's why I asked the question on this here.

 

[retepsnikrep]

That's a very useful PDF with the models listed!

[Vehicles installed with the Company’s lithium-ion batteries]

Vehicle name	Product name	Launched	Markets
CR-Z	EH5	Sep 28, 2012	Japan, North America
ACCORD HYBRID	EH5	Jun 20, 2013	Japan, North America
ACCORD PLUG-IN HYBRID	EH19	Jun 20, 2013	Japan, North America
FIT HYBRID	EH5	Sep 6, 2013	Japan
VEZEL HYBRID	EH5	Dec 20, 2013	Japan
GRACE HYBRID	EH5	Dec 1, 2014	Japan
JADE HYBRID	EH5	Feb 13, 2015	Japan
LEGEND	EH5	Feb 20, 2015	Japan
SHUTTLE HYBRID	EH5	May 15, 2015	Japan
CLARITY FUEL CELL	EHW5	Mar 10, 2016	Japan, U.S.
ACCORD HYBRID	EHW5	May 26, 2016	Japan, North America, China, Asia
NSX	EHW5	Aug 25, 2016	Japan, North America, China
FREED HYBRID	EHW5	Sep 16, 2016	Japan
New STEP WGN SPADA HYBRID	EHW5	Sep 29, 2017	Japan

 

[eprom]

I was wondering why I couldn't find blue energy documents relate to Honda after 2017.
I think I found why, in 2018 honda made an agreement for lithium batteries with panasonic and unfortunately the charging specs are not high enough for us if I trust the site azlithium.
here is a link where you can buy some and they still have a lot of interesting specs

Honda Clarity Hybrid Lithium Ion Battery Module - VP-ASP Shopping Cart 8.00

Honda Clarity Hybrid Lithium Ion Battery Module with 1.22kwh hour

azlithium.com

 

[retepsnikrep]

As long as you keep the Panasonic cell voltages well within spec I expect they would cope fine.

 

[mudder]

Unless i'm wrong
The EH5 was a battery with a bolt on each cell.
The EHW5 are the same battery but cell welded together.

This same tidbit was mentioned elsewhere on ic.net earlier today, but I'm not certain it's true. If you look at the power density graphs across temperature, the EH5 & EHW5 modules have very different performance. Specifically, the EHW5 modules have better performance than the EH5 modules. These differences across temperature are a function of cell chemistry, not whether the bus bars are welded or bolted.

I believe the bolted modules we are using are EHW5 modules. I could be wrong, but I need more convincing evidence from either manufacture.

...

Based on my previous sleuthing, I'm fairly certain the 2018 accord module contains EHW5 modules. However, I don't believe anyone has verified this 100%... but if/when you do, please let me know, so I can update linsight.org/batteries

 

[eprom]

I went to buy a 2018 honda accord battery, luckily for me the guy was patient and interested in the battery, he took the time to open it with me.
The content was disappointing for me in it contained EHW5B but it was two large packs of 36 solder cells so I don't have my batteries yet...
So here is some informations for @mudder to update linsight.org/batteries
Here are some pictures of the contents of a 2018 accord battery

 

[retepsnikrep]

72S that would be nice! 300V

 

[eprom]

My first reaction was to start laughing, but after a few seconds the joke becomes a dream...
Is it possible if we put aside the limit of the dc / dc converter?

 

[mudder]

Thanks for the boots-on-the-ground data. Unfortunate that the 2018 Civic uses 36S modules.

LiBCM doesn't natively support 72S... you'd need to add an additional (external) LTC6804 to the auxiliary SPI bus. You'd also need to modify the MCM'e' differential voltage resistors, so that LiBCM could spoof the voltage much lower. The existing BOM population allows LiBCM to scale the voltage anywhere from 67:100% of the actual voltage. Therefore, with a 300 volt pack voltage, LiBCM would only be able to spoof down to 200 volts, which would make the MCM unhappy. Simple resistor value change, but worth noting.

I'm not certain the OEM IMA system can safely/reliably handle 300 volts. That's more than 100 volts higher than the design rating, and also in a different HVDC safety class. Time will tell, but for now we'll focus on 48S, then 60S.

 

[retepsnikrep]

I'm not certain the OEM IMA system can safely/reliably handle 300 volts. That's more than 100 volts higher than the design rating, and also in a different HVDC safety class. Time will tell, but for now we'll focus on 48S, then 60S.

I agree.
For track/experimental/competition work where you don't mind blowing up every once in a while then fill your boots!
But it would be on the ragged edge I think and I would not want it in a road car.

300 volts would also get you a pretty solid 30kw+ from the IMA for very short periods!