[Dr. Ali Fant]

Main 144 VDC Battery Upgrade

I just got my 2001 Insight back from the dealer with a new 144 VDC battery. I gleamed as much information as I could from the Honda technician. Here is what I found:

The 144 VDC Battery is replaced, not cell by cell, but as a "black box."
The newly installed battery has NO warranty whatsoever. :roll:
Replacement instructions from Honda required two new charger unit upgrades. These modules are "supposedly" charging the 144 VDC battery at a different rate than that original set for the car.

Sincerely,
Ali Fant, Car No. 354

 

[Wayne M]

No warrenty??!

Something ain't right, replacement parts are covered by one year / 12,000 mile warranty.

 

[Resist]

The newly installed battery has NO warranty whatsoever.

This makes no sense. So are you saying the 8 year 80k mile warranty on the battery pack is only a one time thing?

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Sorry resist the 8/80K is for the original pack only. And AFAIK WayneM is correct. The replacement pack is 12/12K. Bogturtlewoman confirmed this when her IMA pack was replaced.

Dr Fant's charger units are the updated BCM & MCM as per the Service Bulliten here:

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... 7&start=45

HTH!

 

[Resist]

Sorry resist the 8/80K is for the original pack only. And AFAIK WayneM is correct. The replacement pack is 12/12K.

So if my battery pack failed the first year and was replaced then I would only get another years worth of warranty coverage on the new pack? I should at least get the remaining 7 years of warranty coverage!

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Good point,

From the original date of being sold and regardless whether your the original owner the IMA pack is warrantied 8/80. Replacement within that interval will not shorten the warranty nor lenghten it beyond the original 8/80 or 12/12 which ever is longer. (AFAIK)

But unless there's been some modification or physical damage (not warrantable) I seriously doubt that a second IMA pack is going to fail such that this becomes an issue. And I'm sure that Honda would take a _VERY_ close look at any car that this stiuation _might_ ocurr with.

HTH!

 

[Resist]

Okay now you just confused me. I thought you stated earlier the original battery back is 8/80k and if it is replaced, then that replacement only has a 12/12k warranty.

So now are you saying the replacement within that interval WILL not or SHOULD not, shorten the warranty nor lengthen it beyond the original 8/80k or 12/12k which ever is longer?

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Both :!: :twisted:

Its Honda's call. And I believe you'd be on solid ground to "argue" that if a replacement IMA pack failed before the original full (8/80) warranty expired then you'd _still_ be due the original full warranty coverage. But in any case the replacement carries at least 12/12 (AFAIK, as does _all_ other Honda dealer repairs parts and labor excluding _normal_ wear items).

Sooo...

to further confuse you you may end up with a 9/92 IMA "warranty" should the original pack fail precisely @80K.

And for a 3rd pack to be a vaild scenairo the original pack will have to fail before 7/68, with the second pack failing before its 12/12.

If you want / need a "better" explination you'll need to consult your attorney. And should the need for a claim under this somewhat convoluted overlap of warranties ocurr you may need to anyway since Honda may choose to interpret the coverage less favorably. But I would tend to doubt it.

HTH!

 

[Resist]

I believe you'd be on solid ground to "argue" that if a replacement IMA pack failed before the original full (8/80) warranty expired then you'd _still_ be due the original full warranty coverage.

Has anybody actually argued the point with Honda? I'd like to know the facts concerning this.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

The "facts" will vary by state law. And since your in CA ( :?: ) you'd have a better chance as the consumer.

Never been an issue and I doubt it will likely become one. Still given enough time and hybrids anything *could* happen.

HTH!

 

[Resist]

It's not a state by state issue. It's a Honda warranty policy issue.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Well resist,

What else do you leave me to say but in addition to still learning about the Insight you need to take legal 101. Car warranties are not a federal issue. So any dispute will be determined under the law in your state. Just like some states do not have a lemon law and in the states that do the law does vary. Therefore any "issue" in regard to a warranty dispute _will_ be determined by your states law on the subject and will vary somewhat from state to state.

The last word is yours.

 

[Resist]

I understand what you are saying but apparently you don't understand what I am saying. I was talking about Honda's basic 8/80k warranty policy concerning the battery replacement on a one year old Insight. It is going to be the same no matter what state you live in. I'd like to know what Honda has to say about whether an Insight owner gets shafted because the replacement battery pack only has a year warranty, when 7 years were remaining on the original pack.

 

[IamIan]

Battery

Resist... I think I understand and will try to explain as you both seem to just be missing each other by a hair.... :wink:

there are seperate issues... Honda Originally gives a 8/80 on the IMA system including the battery so if the system fails in that time for reasons that are covered under thier policy they will replace it... The Honda policy does not cover abuse or if you alter the way the honda charges the battery or in short if you mess with it in anyway....

Now they put this new Battery Pack in your Insight the new pack comes with 12/12... Meaning that if they meaning honda determines the replacement is defective for things that are covered under the 12/12 in the 12/12 then they will replace it.....

Now the sticky part comes in .... Does the 12/12 replace the 8/80 or overlap it??? and that is the question that will not have a universal answer... I called honda about this like 2 years ago... they at the customer service center said that the 12/12 overlaps the 8/80 but any time a item like this is done it is looked at closely in the car and the car's computer to make sure that honda is at fault and the cause of the failure is covered.... What I took that to mean is that Honda Determines if it is covered or not...

Needing a 3rd pack in under 8/80 when for instance I and many others are doing fine well up to or even past 80k on the original battery means that they will probably be looking mighty hard to figure out why yours failed ... if they find any good reason that it is not covered then it won't be....

Now the Variation comes in.... Some states becuase of thier warrenty law will force the original warrenty to be honored + the 12/12 overlap.... some state warrenty law may let Honda Replace the 8/80 with the 12/12 when they replace the battery.... Which is why the honda rep told me on the phone ~2 years ago when I was asking tons of questions about the Insight that the technician will look hard to see if the failure is covered by the warrenty or if it happened for reasons that are not covered....

Resist, from what i can tell you want to know what Honda will say 100% of the time and what thier offical possition is.... Officially they will give a very happy answer followed by all the fine print that always comes to give them and any company a way out. :wink: ... Honda is not Stupid... if they know you are in a state that they know the warrenty law is on thier side not yours they may just cut thier losses and save the dollar.... in other states where warrenty law is on your side they may choose to bend over backwards beyond the 8/80 or the 12/12 to prevent legal problems.

As an Example about the law a freind of mine stoped at a red light got rear ended by an ambulance who did not have it's lights on and turns out wasn't even on duty.... Abulance Company's offical responce is that all accidents are never the abulances fault .... A Local Law designed to protect Abulances from stupid law suits was being used as a shield becuase they knew in that area that legally Abulances are never at fault on duty or not.... in that locality the law says if a abulance hits you it is your fault .... my freind thought it was bull **** and got a lawyer who told him that a ambulance in that town could Intentionally Ram your car in a parking lot while you are parked in a space and they would be builtproof they legally in that town can not be at fault :shock: ..... The Laws always matter becuase the law is what force Companies to keep Promises like Warrenties without the Laws they can Make any promise they want and don't have to honor anything. :roll:

This isn't a Honda thing it is just Law it is what prevents companies and people from getting away with doing things ... And it is the Local or state Law since There is not Federal Warrenty Law that will determine what they can and can't get away with and Honda Lawyers know the law that is thier job and they get a yearly salary to protect the Honda Company... as do any corperate lawyers....

Honda has a policy which gives plenty of fine print to give them an out and sales man will make all the promises to get you to buy... If you want to know what they can and can't get away with or what areas get grey... Talk to a Laywer in your area about your state & Local Laws.

My 2 Bits..