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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Major MPG Issues out of Nowhere - Have BB [SOLVED]

***SOLVED***



So an update on my car...

The BetterBattery has been working great. Before my move from Texas to Oregon, I bought new tires and got an oil change.

I was getting 73mpg with 50psi in my tires.



My trip from Texas to Oregon, I drove some 2,500 miles and got 62.0mpg. I thought it was astounding, given that my car was absolutely loaded down with stuff... and I was running at around 46psi. It handled mountain passes with EASE. Amazing.

After I got to my place in Oregon, I unloaded everything and pumped the tires back up to 50psi. Since I've been here, I'm getting hardly 50mpg. With only me in the car, everything off.

The car is certainly driving different. I tried disconnecting the 12v batter, and pulling the 4th fuse to reset the IMA... but that has not solved the problem.

The car slows down when I lift off the pedal enough to not commit a charge from the battery pack. For instance, at 55mph I can't maintain 75mpg. In fact, the car seems like it can't decide whether to charge or discharge, and chooses to do one of the other... even with a full battery gauge.

I just got an oil change, and it didn't help at all. Before my trip, I installed new gaskets in the intake manifold and cleaned it all out.

Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
I should note that the car seems to have been a bit jerky

When I got my oil changed, they did an emissions test of some sort and gave me a rating of 6 out of 10. They said my fuel efficiency was sub-optimal.

I'm in Corvallis and up for meeting other Insight owners. Just contact me.
 

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Any check engine lights or other symptoms you have not yet listed. Not much to go on so far. Running rough, could one injector or spark plug/ignition have failed?
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
No CELs. The Maintenance light did flash at me, but I reset it.

I only buy the highest octane of gas I can get a hold of. I'm looking at 25mpg loss here.

My under panels are fine, my 12v is brand new.

Any recommendations on where to get the spark plugs changed and injectors cleaned? It does sound like it is running rough, and the oil tech even noted it on the receipt, although they didn't say anything to me.

By the way, they are trying to convince me to go 7,500 miles on the oil. They said it was manufacturer recommendation, is that true?
 

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A 25 mpg loss is not valid. Maybe you are only running on 2 cyls.? Need more information. There are several Insighters in the Oregon area. Maybe it's time for a meet and assist.
7500 mile service on the oil and filter is what is recommended, and followed by most of the Insighters with a G1.
I'd go for new plugs, although you haven't indicated when they were changed. 100K miles on a set of plugs is normal. Premium is at the owners discretion. I even run regular in my Turbo G1, unless I know I will be running hard and fast, then I might use premium.
Need more information..........Load test the 12V battery.
There have been reports of some bad coils on the G1.

HTH
Willie
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
I will get some new plugs put in and see what happens.

I bought the car at around 120k, and now it is at 146k. I guess I've been changing the oil way too soon.

Also, I do have a 300w Class D amp for the sound system, but I've had it shut off via a toggle switch since this problem started. It is wired to the 12v.

And what do you mean by coils?
 

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The things on top of the spark plugs.
(One coil per cylinder)
You will have to remove the coils before you can remove the spark plugs.

Willie
 

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Or brake drag in general... you could try jacking up first one side, then the other and checking that the wheels turn freely (obviously chock the wheels THOROUGHLY since you won't be able to have it in gear/ebrake on to do that).

Sam
 

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Also, environmental changes make a huge difference to these cars. The air temp/pressure/relative humidity in Texas are quite different to those in Oregon. The car WILL behave differently (I find that in the ~25-30C summer here in Ontario, Canada, versus the -5 to -10C winter I see, it makes a 25% or more difference to my economy) in different weather conditions. I find it runs best on hot, humid days.

A change like this in the way the car feels, could certainly instigate a change in your driving habits to try and compensate for the lesser power, by stomping the gas, and making the economy worse.
 

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Find a very slight down hill (very slight) and put it into neutral when coasting at one or two miles per hour. My cvt will roll on anything that is not level. If I just barely depress the brake, the brake pads will not be used, and I have been able to coast to a stop light and even start to roll backwards, then I push the brake harder to keep from rolling backwards. At least once they seemed to slightly he hanging up. One hard application and they were back to normal. I rarely have to step on the brakes hard, usually I am lightly using them to charge the battery as much as possible.

I think that others have had dragging brakes, fixed by one hard stop.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Okay, brakes are probably due for a change, too.

Is that hard to do? I've never changed brakes; is there something particular to the insight?

I'll go look at the manual now.

I think I need to start with the plugs or the catalytic converter... I just went and started it, and listened real good. The engine is running rough.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
So, a couple of questions.

1. Should I update my ECM if it hasn't been done?

2. Is it difficult to seat the new spark plugs? I'll get new OEM plugs. I'm checking with Honda tomorrow. I found the weight, any advice? "Torque them to 23 N.m (2.3kgf.m, 17 lbf.ft)."

3. Although the climate control console was off, it was not in ECON mode. I noticed while idling, it sounded like a fan kept kicking on. I just set the controls to ECON and A/C OFF, then turned everything off. Could this have been the problem?

Thanks.
 

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1. No.
2. Nope
3. Definite possibility.

Willie
Redo your location in your profile please.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Solved it, but not sure how.

So, I pulled each coil to check which version plugs I have; they are all B.

I disconnected one and pulled it completely out. Here is what it looked like. I cleaned it up and bolted it back in. However, I forgot to reconnect the electricity and started the car.

It sounded rough again, just like it did before. Then the CEL engine light came on. I looked under the hood and realized I didn't plug reconnect that one coil.

So, I reconnected it, disconnected my 12v battery for a bit, then restarted the car.

It charged up to 4 bars, then quit. Before the BB, it would slowly charge up to 4 bars, then fill all the way up. It has done this a few times after, too.

Anyway, after it quit charging I took it for a spin without shutting the car off. Tonight was cool, no wind and perfect driving conditions. After 17 miles, it was done charging totally. At this point, I was at 53 mpg in "charge" mode.

I reset the trip meter, stopped for a fill up with 93 octane, and headed back home. After the battery was topped off, I made the trip back home at 71 mpg. Both ways are very flat, with half of my distance driven having 65 mph and 55mph.

Maybe the change in altitudes did mess with the seal of the coils. Perhaps there was a slight leak, causing a lack of pressure in the cylinder's chamber. I torqued them down harder than what they came off at. OR... I didn't completely "recharge" the car after unplugging the 12v earlier? I noticed I was constantly at around half charge.

Also, I was able to gander into the chamber and noticed my spark plug was shiny and had no letter on the tip. I noticed the other plugs pictured on the board were labeled with a B, but maybe the owner marked it in this way. Have mine been replaced?

Thanks for the help. The car is driving just perfectly now. This is the greatest car ever, and a dream with the BetterBatter!! WOW!




 

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Whoa, the coil shouldn't look like that!

It looks like whatever spark plug that one was attached to is loose! You should check all three with a torque wrench ASAP.

AFAICT, the coil should be pretty much pristinely clean below the outer ring seal, but yours looks like combustion products have been blowing in around it.

Sam
 

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stopped for a fill up with 93 octane
I don't think that the Insight engine likes high octane... it is made for low octane and that may be part of your problem. Try a couple tanks of low and see what happens.
 

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Sam is right, looks like compression blow by. IIFR the spark plug connector tip has a letter stamped on it also. (Been so long since replacement I can't remember.)
No benefit from running a higher octane gas in a stock G1.

HTH
Willie
 

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I noticed when I changed the plugs on mine, 2 out of 3 were loose. IMHO Every G1 owner should check the torque on their plugs every once in a while (every 30,000 miles or so??)
 
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