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Marine deep cycle battery recommendations

7K views 51 replies 13 participants last post by  S Keith 
#1 ·
This summer I plan on removing my IMA (by choice, not from any major IMA degradation) but keep the stock DC-DC converter due to it's ruggedness, higher current output, and proven reliability over the Meanwell PSU.

The plan is to remove the aluminum IMA compartment cover, relocate the tools area in the back to where the IMA battery was, open up the back behind the battery for storage space, and then build a cover to go over it all with sections removable to access the DC-DC, new tools area, and the expanded rear storage area.

Post IMA delete, idle RPMs will be back down to around 900 vs the 1200-ish that they are currently with the dummy lights on. To compensate for this my plan is to replace the 12V battery with a marine deep cycle battery.

I've seen deep cycle batteries that can sustain a 25A draw for over 6 hours, but they weigh over 60 lbs. One with a couple hours should probably suffice, I'm thinking. Enough for me to do extensive engine off coasting at night with headlights on without draining the 12V down too low.

Are any of you currently running deep cycle batteries in your Insights? Which brands and capacities work best for you? How long is the typical lifespan of a deep cycle battery compared to a typical 12V battery? Costwise I'd like to keep this under $200 if possible, but I'll go up to $300 if a more optimal capacity battery costs more and if their lifespan is long enough to justify the expense.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Post IMA delete, idle RPMs will be back down to around 900 vs the 1200-ish that they are currently with the dummy lights on. To compensate for this my plan is to replace the 12V battery with a marine deep cycle battery....
I don't think there's much if any difference in output at 900 RPM vs. 1200. Probably the first, main thing you'd want to do is clip the wire responsible for putting the DC-DC into 'low power mode' (~12.2V output vs. ~13.8V). Here's a link to a post with a graphic mudder made about which wires to cut. There's two wires that do slightly different things, can't remember which one to cut to simply disable 'low power mode' vs. preventing the DC-DC from turning off completely: https://www.insightcentral.net/foru...ick-based-nimh-12v-battery-4.html#post1278738

I think it'd probably be a good idea to use a deep cycle marine in your circumstances regardless, at least it'd be more appropriate than a normal starting lead acid...

edit: ^Actually, I forgot that, without the IMA you'll be using the 12V to start - so I don't know if a deep cycle marine would be more appropriate or not. Probably, a lot of them still have good cold cranking power and the Insight doesn't need much.
 
#3 ·
Isn't 1200-ish RPM the lowest engine speed where the DC-DC converter will run? I always presumed that <1200 RPMs triggered the dummy lights, just like >4000 does.

Will cutting those wires allow the DC-DC to charge better at lower RPMs or does it just ensure that the battery is always at 13.8v?

CCA doesn't seem to be an issue unless you live in the far north from what I've read. Some of the deep cycle batteries I've looked at have higher CCAs than my current 12V (500 or 550 CCA).
 
#5 ·
Isn't 1200-ish RPM the lowest engine speed where the DC-DC converter will run? I always presumed that <1200 RPMs triggered the dummy lights, just like >4000 does.
In general it's always running, just that it doesn't put out much if any power at low RPM. My comments were mainly based on my experience when I started experimenting with a NiMH stick-based 12V battery, and I had the IMA disabled. Idle speed was bumped up automatically - to around 1200 - but as I recall it still wasn't fast enough to charge the 12V. I had to bump it up more I think to something like 1400... As I recall I was watching the 12V parameter on the OBDIIC&C and that's how I determined whether it was charging or not...

Will cutting those wires allow the DC-DC to charge better at lower RPMs or does it just ensure that the battery is always at 13.8v?.
Cutting one of the two wires, not sure which, will just ensure that the DCDC doesn't drop into low power mode, where it only maintains a voltage at the battery of about 12.2V. So yeah, it will usually be at 13.8V-14V...
 
#4 ·
ANY lead acid battery with the proposed > 120 minute reserve capacity (25A for 2 hours) will have ZERO issue with any load the Insight starter can impose.

"Deep cycle" is frequently mis-used and misleading. You need to find batteries that have cycle lives in excess of 300 with 80% depth of discharge. If you can't find that information for a battery, don't buy it. AGM will cost more but give you better results/life.

Bigger is better. When you start looking at depths of discharge of only 40%, cycle lives can push into the 2000s.

Buy the biggest, highest capacity, best cycle life battery you can find, and count on replacing it every 3 years for a cost of ownership analysis.

I don't have any specific recommendations, but avoid anything made by Johnson Controls (including Optima) and anything else made in Mexico.
 
#12 ·
I realize I'm violating a couple of my recommendations (Johnson Controls + Mexico), but the Interstate batteries post some good numbers. The only reason I'm even looking at them is somebody near me is offering a 6 month old interstate SRM-24 on CL for $60... :)

The flooded cell Interstate SRM-24 is relatively inexpensive ($114 MSRP) with a 140 minute RC and a 1000 cycle life to 50% DoD. Their 34M-AGM is equivalent, but it's over twice the price at $270 MSRP.

They are a little squirrely on the rating because they designate end of life at 50% rated capacity instead of the more typical 80% rated capacity typically used.

I'm likely picking this thing up for my motorhome since it's got to be better than the Everstart turds that are in there....

You'll have to find another place for it instead of the stock location.

I've attached a PDF from Interstate.
 

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#11 ·
The 12.2V seen in the car is a LOADED "float" voltage as the 12V system is still supplying all needed current. This is well above 50% SoC. A charging battery that has just attained around 14.0V is at about 70-80% SoC.

Peter's point about keeping 12V batteries full charged is absolutely true. LA below 70-80% SoC eat themselves.

IMHO, anyone running sans IMA battery should be putting the 12V on a charger weekly if not nightly.
 
#17 ·
Could be, which is why the first plan is to cut that GREEN/WHITE wire on the DC-DC to prevent the low-power mode and see if that keeps the 12v topped off.

Based on that statement, I'd say your IMA was far from healthy.
It's definitely not new, but I never had any issues with it except on long mountain grades that drained the battery down. Other than my temporary issues from corroded ground straps. IMA only really helps with acceleration, but you have to regen to charge it rather than coasting engine off, which reduces coasting distance and fuel economy.

By the "slight drag on the motor to keep the IMA charged" I mean the tiny constant charge that the IMA receives under coasting - visible when the bars on the battery go up slowly on highway drives without any visible regenning on the gauges. Only time forced regen occurred was near the tops of mountain passes or when I disconnected the 12V to replace it last year and the SOC reset to zero.

Highway economy improved because I can now engine off coast without having to worry about keeping the car in gear to charge the battery back up. I'm sure driving it the same way with the IMA as without the IMA would result in lower mileage with the IMA bypassed, but with my driving style I don't really experience any economy loss, except in extreme stop-n-go situations. Tire pressure in and of itself is worth much more than an IMA in terms of fuel economy, and the laws of physics make it clear that removing the weight of the battery will reduce the amount of energy needed to get up to speed.

If I had a MIMA or IMAC&C I'm sure I'd get better fuel economy with the IMA enabled, but those are expensive. Plus, without the IMA, I don't have to worry about a $2000 expense every so many years, or have to invest heavily in battery maintenance equipment.

If I ever do return it to hybrid form, it will be as a lithium PHEV with some form of IMAC&C and 20+ miles of EV only range, but that won't be for quite a while when I have both the funds and the knowledge for such a complicated conversion.
 
#18 ·
Here's a link to some thread I found that has some seemingly good bits of info in it, on lead acid, state of charge vs. voltage, etc: https://electronics.stackexchange.c...t-to-undervoltage-a-12-volt-lead-acid-battery

Here's one thing that speaks to the 50% charge idea/s, depth of discharge and battery life:

"Battery life is directly related to how deep the battery is cycled each time. If a battery is discharged to 50% every day, it will last about twice as long as if it is cycled to 80% DOD. If cycled only 10% DOD, it will last about 5 times as long as one cycled to 50%. Obviously, there are some practical limitations on this - you don't usually want to have a 5 ton pile of batteries sitting there just to reduce the DOD. The most practical number to use is 50% DOD on a regular basis."
 
#20 ·
#21 · (Edited)
Have we discussed just installing a Calpod switch instead of going through all of this? Then you'd have the best of both worlds.

I've bought two Insights lately. The first had a weak IMA and a Calpod switch. I drove it home, about 1,000 miles. The IMA worked, but would throw a code if I pushed it too hard. I grid charged it at the motel, running an extension cord out the door and across the sidewalk. It was better, but I still used the Calpod switch much of the time on the highway, turning it off when I needed the battery. This worked great. I'm pretty sure I can coax this battery back to health.

The second car has no IMA and an Arduino bypass. I don't like this setup! I drove it about 450 miles home, and really didn't like the lack of power, the lack of autostop, the lack of lean burn, the 12v starter, and the constant downshifting, especially when using the AC. I was in 2nd on some steep hills.

I also have a a Calpod switch in my Insight with a good IMA, and I use it when conditions dictate. I coast, engine off, in this car whenever I want to, for as long as I want to. No wires are cut. I've never had a problem with the stock 12V.

I just can't imagine getting rid of the IMA for the reasons you describe and having no choice but to live with the negatives. If the IMA was beyond help and you were waiting until you could afford a new one, that might be a different story. I'd rather see a bypassed car on the road than the same car in a junkyard.

Sam
 
#22 ·
Sam:
I think you meant "turning it off when I needed the battery" didn't you?
I use the CARD switch a lot because sometimes it irritates me, coming on assist when I don't want it to. (Rolling hills, etc)
Willie
 
#23 ·
Yeah. Editing.....

Sam
 
#29 ·
A bit of my experience to share, and a few thoughts:

Two falls ago I had a water leak damage a wire and disable my IMA. I drove the car through the winter without the IMA and hated it.

This last summer I removed mine intentionally and sold what I could while it was still worth something. This was in preparation for a K swap. Since then I've been driving IMA-less voluntarily, and frankly I haven't minded as much. Same experience, different context.

Where I live, driving IMA-less requires 3rd or even 2nd gear WOT, 4-5,000RPM to not lose significant speed and annoy the crap out of other drivers. There are a lot of steep roads and it's doubly bad when there's deep slush and fluids are cold and thick. The car just has no power unless you rev the piss out of it, and that murders fuel economy. However, if I lived in a warmer climate and flatter area, I feel I'd hardly miss the IMA.

_______


Regarding the battery:

I run a 20AH LiFePO4 battery in mine (motor cycle sized and weighing around 6lbs), paired with a Mean Well DC-DC on a switch... and some supercapacitors for grins. A few times I've accidentally driven the 30 minutes it takes me to get to work without the DC-DC running and even using stereo, lights, wipers and heater, even this small battery only seemed to lose maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of its charge. I could safely drive to work and back without issue and just throw it on a charger every evening.

For lead acid to have long lifespans, they should not be deeply discharged. They should also be kept at a high SoC, not 50%. Deep cycle batteries trade cranking amps and (I believe) capacity (or weight) for resilience in lower discharge states. However, they still follow the same basic formula of their starter cousins, just to a lesser extent. Lead acid batteries also have poor charging efficiency at higher SoC which wastes energy, but not as much as you'd think since charging slows a lot due to increasing internal resistance at higher SoC. Lead acid batteries in my mind are safe, reliable and inexpensive choices, but not lightweight or efficient.

~

For what it's worth, I ran my Insight for a little while using a used 7Ah sealed lead acid battery from an alarm panel - a battery which will fit in the palm of your hand. It started the car a little slowly in subzero weather but was otherwise fine. Two of these in parallel couldn't be told apart from the car's stock 12v battery.

Recently I acquired a Craftsman lawnmower (17.5HP engine) and a dead battery. I figured if one of these little SLA batteries was fine for my car, it should be plenty and then some for a lawn mower, right? Wrong; even with three of them in parallel it struggled to start the engine. I ended up getting a properly sized replacement for the mower. Cranking amps for our little 1.0L are ridiculously low, and likely will not be an issue with most battery choices.

~

Regarding using a deep cycle SLA, consider this: A deep cycle battery will last longer if you're cycling it a lot during driving - this is extremely bad for normal starting batteries - but it will eventually go dead if you're coasting enough that the average output of the DC-DC over your trip is less than the average consumption. It won't matter what battery you use.

Average power out must be equal or less to power in. From that perspective, so long as a battery is large enough to last just one pulse and glide cycle AND your DC-DC converter has enough output to top it off during the engine-on phases, it's enough. If the DC-DC doesn't have enough power output, even the biggest battery in the world will eventually go flat.
 
#31 ·
Driving around today in the city the battery cycled between 11.9 and 13.3 volts...voltage fluctuating by 0.1 or so volts every 5-10 seconds, and I wasn't doing any engine off coasting, or going above the 4000 RPM DC-DC cutoff. Is this normal? My drives were only 10-15 minutes at a time so I can see why it wouldn't get to full charge, but is it normal for voltage to fluctuate like this? My 12V is less than a year old. Car started somewhere between 12.5 and 12.9, I forget which.

All driving during the day with no accessory use - no AC, no radio, very limited window use, no headlights, etc. Even when in idle I watched the voltage fluctuate between 11.9 and 13.3. For reference I am using a Scangauge II to monitor 12V charge. Has anyone had issues with these reading 12V voltage properly?

I run a 20AH LiFePO4 battery in mine (motor cycle sized and weighing around 6lbs), paired with a Mean Well DC-DC on a switch... and some supercapacitors for grins. A few times I've accidentally driven the 30 minutes it takes me to get to work without the DC-DC running and even using stereo, lights, wipers and heater, even this small battery only seemed to lose maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of its charge. I could safely drive to work and back without issue and just throw it on a charger every evening.
Your LiFePO4 battery doesn't work below freezing though without supercapacitors, right?

_______

Going to try cutting the WHITE/GREEN wire tomorrow if I can access it easily (I haven't looked at the wiring by the DC-DC converter before when I've had the IMA box open). I probably won't need to drive until next Sunday so we'll see if it makes a difference then. Still confused about the fluctuating voltage though.
 
#42 · (Edited)
OlRowdy...

Bad
Beer
Rots
Our
Young
Guts
But
Vodka
Goes
Well
After I posted the color code I did a Google search for the sentence I was thinking off and found a site with a lot of variations but not the naughty one. :rolleyes:

I haven't heard your version though. ;)
------------
Anyway about a 12 volt battery substitution:
I ordered a Mighty Max ML35-12INT AGM battery ($64) that is a little smaller than the stock group 51 Insight battery. It has flat metal internally threaded posts for the battery cable connections.

I sawed the lead battery posts off a junk normal car battery I had, machined the bottom of the cut to be perpendicular to the axis of each post, drilled a clearance hole for the M6 terminal bolts the ML35-12 uses through the center of each post and now the battery has regular 12 volt starter cable posts on it.

I'll install it tomorrow morning and see how it works. It should be OK because it has good specs (12V 35Ah [20hr] etc).

My old normal group 51, 3 year warranty battery lasted 8 years total in my CRX and then the Insight. And that included ~6 years of sitting in the CRX being solar charged to keep it alive. ("They don't make 'um like they used to.")
 
#34 ·
So do the Scangauges and other voltmeters only show the output voltage from the DC-DC, and not the actual voltage on the 12V battery? because there's no way on a healthy 12V that the voltage should drop from, say, 13.3 down to 12.0 in a matter of 5 seconds with no accessories while driving, especially after what y'all are saying about "20Ah could last me an hour or more", etc. Aren't lead acid 12V batteries typically around 28Ah? Even if one used only 20% of the capacity, that's 5.6Ah, which if 20Ah lasts an hour, 5.6Ah should be able to last a good 15 minutes without being charged back up by the DC-DC, rather than fluctuating between 12 and 13+ volts in a matter of seconds, unless the Scangauge is reading the DC-DC output voltage rather than the 12v's actual voltage?
 
#35 ·
I'm at work right now, but I suggest you try this:

Start your car and measure with a volt meter the voltage at the battery. Then, turn your car off, and watch the voltage at the battery when there's zero load for 5, maybe 10 minutes. I'm guessing that will inform you on where that battery's resting voltage is, and you'll have a baseline to compare with once you're loading the battery (e.g. EoC).
 
#36 ·
I'm guessing it reads bus voltage, which reflects output of the DC-DC converter. I have a scan-guage as well, fluctuates the same way. In addition, I have a power port (cigarette lighter) phone charger that has a voltage readout. The two indications are usually within .3V of each other.

I run a garden tractor battery as espoused by Willie. In the winter I will turn headlights on for the last 20 minutes of my commute. This will kick the voltage up to 13.8 or so, which I figure gives the battery a little charge to ensure it is ready on a cold morning.

Seems to work, I had a number of 0F and below starts this past winter where the car started off of the 12V battery. No problems starting.
 
#38 ·
I'm guessing it reads bus voltage, which reflects output of the DC-DC converter. I have a scan-guage as well, fluctuates the same way. In addition, I have a power port (cigarette lighter) phone charger that has a voltage readout. The two indications are usually within .3V of each other.
Is there a way to measure the actual voltage of the 12v while driving?

If the 12V's actual voltage is, say, 11.9V, how long would it take the DC-DC operating at high power mode to charge it back up to 14V?

_______

I was reading through this thread and had a few questions regarding the wire cut.

Peter made a pretty conclusive claim that keeping the DC-DC on high output reduces fuel economy slightly with the IMA because the car has to make up for the charge taken away from the IMA and added to the 12v (1 IMA battery worth per 2 hours of driving). Is this still the case without an IMA, since without the IMA the engine is already now taking on the whole load of the electric motor and DC-DC?

Permalinks to the referenced posts:
- https://www.insightcentral.net/foru...ep-12-volt-battery-charged-4.html#post1174274
- https://www.insightcentral.net/foru...ep-12-volt-battery-charged-5.html#post1179690
- https://www.insightcentral.net/foru...ep-12-volt-battery-charged-6.html#post1180234
 
#43 ·
Bad
Boys
Rape
Our
Young
Girls
But
Violet
Gives
Willingly



Sam
 
#45 ·

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#46 ·
Did some driving today with the meanwell disabled. With it disabled, I saw almost +5 MPG with hypermiling (EOC) and almost +10 MPG driving normally (no EOC). Note that my fuel economy is currently around 100 MPG this summer, so these numbers will be less if you are getting lower MPG, and higher if you are getting better MPG. IIRC Nathan, who runs 120-150 PSI in his tires and gets 120-150 MPG noted a +15 MPG gain with the meanwell turned off. So let's say around 10%.

Adding/subtracting load didn't seem to affect economy or power at all, it was just the fact of having the meanwell on that took power and reduced fuel economy.

Suppose base load is 10 amps, at 14.3 volts, that's 143 watts, or 0.2 hp. At full power the meanwell is stealing 1 hp at most, so why is the difference between on and off so noticeable?

The car also accelerated slightly better and had slightly more available power with the meanwell turned off.

But obviously I need charging to the 12V in order for the car to run. After about 12 miles and 20-25 minutes, including 3 starts with the starter, no accessory use besides the radio for 5 minutes, the 12V resting voltage with the car off was 12.4, and under load it varied between 11.8 and 12.2 volts towards the end of my driving. Battery was fully charged before starting. This is just a typical, 500 or 550 CCA 12V starting battery. And yes, I know that wasn't good for the battery, but I just wanted to test it out to see what would happen.

Some things I'm considering doing:
- Turn the Meanwell voltage down to 13.9 volts. Right now voltage is set to ~14.3 volts and varies between 14.0 and 14.6 volts. 12V charging should be above 13.5 to keep a 12V healthy, so with it set at 13.9, voltage should vary between 13.6 and 14.2. That should theoretically reduce power consumption by ~3% (+0.15 mpg if 10 mpg is gained from turning it completely off).
- 80ah Deep cycle battery capable of 20 amp draw for 2 hours without dipping below 50% charge; 40ah might work too if it has at least 1000 to 50% discharge cycles.
- Move the meanwell kill switch so I can disable/enable charging while driving.
- Solar panels in the rear window to keep the battery topped off.

Problem is, my 12V battery is only 8 months old. 80ah deep cycles are close to $200, and a 100w solar panel is close to $100 as well.

Voltage drops under load, so a fully charged battery disconnected from the alternator may read low 12s under load, but it's still fully charged, right? I'm assuming a typical deep cycle battery is the same? If this is the case how can I measure current SOC of a deep cycle battery while I'm driving, other than temporarily shutting the car off, checking the voltage, and then turning the car back on?

I am aware that any MPG gain from disabling the meanwell will result in a MPG loss when the meanwell is reenabled and has to work harder to charge the battery, however my car does sit around for a while and a 100W solar panel should be enough (100W/14.2v = 7A) to keep the battery topped off for anything other than a long highway trip. And even on a highway trip, other than radio and headlights (LED) the car runs at base load - guesstimate 20 amps max, so in full sun I could toggle the meanwell on and off strategically while driving and keep the battery happy.

Meanwell PSU gets very hot to the touch at temperatures above 90 degrees outside, and the fan runs all the time. Voltage dropped slightly during that time, but that was likely due to having to work harder to recharge the battery after draining it with the meanwell disabled. Current setup is stock fan and the meanwell bolted and thermal pasted to an aluminum bar to more than double the contact area for cooling. Meanwell compartment isn't completely closed yet and I haven't added the intake/exhaust fans for the meanwell compartment yet. Thinking of what else I could use as additional heat sinking. Under 90 degrees outside the meanwell fan stays off 70%-80% of the time. Interior temperature is around the same as outside.

It's late, so forgive me if this is all nonsense. :-|
 
#47 · (Edited)
If you are already getting a consistent 100mpg US then you are in the top 1% of US Insight drivers and using minimal power/fuel, so well done. ;)

Anything you do that reduces engine load is going to have a proportionally larger effect on mpg than for 'normal' people!
So even the few hundred watts taken by the meanwell will make a difference..

Yes reducing the meanwell output voltage will reduce the load and mean your battery works harder, there will be as sweet spot.

You could put a current sensor on the 12V lead from the meanwell to see what current it is supplying to the battery.
Maybe an accessible voltage adjustment pot so you can turn it up/down.

Post good pictures of how your meanwell is installed, you should be ducting air to it from the original MDM air inlet IMO..
 
#51 ·
If you are already getting a consistent 100mpg US then you are in the top 1% of US Insight drivers and using minimal power/fuel, so well done. ;)
80-95 MPG driving smart and 100-125 MPG hypermiling, so around 100 average altogether, but that's in the summer. Winter is obviously a lot lower.

Anything you do that reduces engine load is going to have a proportionally larger effect on mpg than for 'normal' people!
So even the few hundred watts taken by the meanwell will make a difference..

Yes reducing the meanwell output voltage will reduce the load and mean your battery works harder, there will be as sweet spot.

You could put a current sensor on the 12V lead from the meanwell to see what current it is supplying to the battery.
Maybe an accessible voltage adjustment pot so you can turn it up/down.
Is there a way to limit the current draw of the meanwell? For example, suppose I get a deep cycle battery, and cycle the battery down to 85%, knowing I can charge it through solar when I get home. Suppose for some reason I need to turn on the meanwell, it will knock down my MPG a little bit to get the battery charged back up. Wondering if there would be a way to limit the current draw to keep the deep cycle at that 85% versus trying to charge it back up.

What I'm seeing right now is that for x time travelled with the Meanwell off, I get +5-10 MPG driving normally, and + <5 MPG hypermiling with EOC. When the meanwell is turned back on, for 2x distance I see a slight MPG loss (<5 MPG) as the Meanwell works harder to get the battery charged back up.

My drive into work with the Meanwell disabled was 107.6 MPG, which is pretty normal - this tank has averaged 99-114 MPG into work and 111-120 MPG driving back home so far. My drive into work alternator-less yesterday was 113.9 MPG, but it was also warmer (outside temperature has a HUGE effect on economy - 70*F vs 90*F can mean as much as 10 MPG). But, my drive in and back consists of about 1.25 miles of EOC on the drive in, and about 1.5 miles of EOC on the drive back home, with no net elevation change. With the EOC I see no change in MPG with the meanwell on or off, but rather only when driving faster (>40 MPH) and doing no EOC.

So my hypothesis is that I would see a definite MPG gain by going deep cycle + solar charger on highway trips and if I didn't hypermile. However, highway trips are typically too long to go alternator-less, and not hypermiling costs me a lot more fuel than going alternator-less. So the actual savings would be negligible, especially for such a cost. I'm still planning on going deep cycle for my next 12V down the road just to help with the EOC I do, but not a gigantic one.

Post good pictures of how your meanwell is installed, you should be ducting air to it from the original MDM air inlet IMO..
My meanwell setup isn't finished yet, so my cooling system hasn't been perfected yet. I'm thinking of connecting the meanwell somehow to the chassis for even better heat dissipation. The two fans I will be installing for intake and exhaust for the enclosed meanwell area are 120mm fans, 38dbA, 2000 RPM, 89.3 CFM. I didn't notice much airflow from the MDM air inlet, especially compared to what the fans can do, so it's blocked off right now. I may open it up later if I encounter cooling problems even with the additional cooling fans. I'll be sure to post pictures, and maybe a video, when it's done.

Looks to me like the game is changing from "save the most money" to "get the highest number on the FCD". ;)

Awesome post, and in-line with what I'd expect in fuel savings.
Guilty as charged, but I'm trying to find some sort of happy medium here. In the 8,009.4 miles I've put on the Insight I've spent $243.05 in gas. Hypermiling my eocmodded Civic for that many miles would've cost over $400, and driving my Civic normally with no ecomods would've cost me close to $600. The savings is real. I love the car, and not just for the fuel savings.

There has always been that segment of owners. Back early in my ownership I would have thrown my wife out of the car if it would have added 1MPG to the FCD:D
Don't let her see that! ;) I wouldn't say I'm that radical, except when it's just me and there's no traffic, because, why not? Even with a passenger and cargo, and no hypermiling the car still gets insane mileage.

For me personally, it is hard to enjoy the basic nature of the car at that level of concentration on details, but many of us have gone through it. Witness my signature, and yes it was an awesome post.
Part of the reason I love this car is because getting good mileage is a lot easier than in other cars. I can focus less on hypermiling and still get good mileage, and not feel guilty about not hypermiling at times. Part of the reason I do the mods is so that I can get good mileage with less effort. The Civic required insane P&G just to get over 55 MPG around town, whereas I could probably floor the Insight, shift at redline, and still beat 55 MPG in the winter.
 
#49 ·
Looks to me like the game is changing from "save the most money" to "get the highest number on the FCD". ;)
There has always been that segment of owners. Back early in my ownership I would have thrown my wife out of the car if it would have added 1MPG to the FCD:D

For me personally, it is hard to enjoy the basic nature of the car at that level of concentration on details, but many of us have gone through it - witness my signature.
 
#52 ·
Drop it to the 13.5 float voltage and charge it via 12V charger overnight once a week.

You can leave them sitting in a 80-90% state of charge and experience very little deterioration. That's about where you are when you hit 14.4V @ 0.1C

You're also speaking in absolutes with regards to voltage. The guidelines for voltage vs. SoC typically entail a 24 hour "rest" since last use. When the chemistry is active or "recently excited", It's not reliable to predict SoC.

Also, if you mean you have a 100W solar panel, and you're going to use it to charge it while the panel is in the car through the glass, you need to count on about 30-40W. If you're using it with direct exposure, count on about 70-80W TOPS for maybe 4-5 hours.
 
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