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Discussion Starter #1
Well guys I hate to go down this path, but we need to talk about this sooner or later. If I sell you a , or built boards, or a schematic with Micro. You stick it in your car, and wire it wrong, boom blown MCM, ECM. You install it fine, and Honda won't honor the warranty and you have to pay for a Battery pack or whatever, or you love MIMA too much and burn out your pack. I do not want to have a lawyer knocking on my door wanting me to pay for it.
We need a way to assure that you know and legally agree to assume all liability for anything to do with MIMA that you decide to do to your car.
Through MIMA I am offering to let you share in an experiment that has never been done before. We as some of the most experienced hybrid car owners have for the first time an opportunity to define the perfect human hybrid interface. (HHI) We are no longer at the whims or the car designers, marketing and engineers who are the masters that created this great piece of engineering, but lack the hands on experience that we have collectively acquired.
We the experienced hybrid drivers that have learned to drive the Insight for maximum mileage, working through the gas priority throttle system. Will now define the best way to use the hybrid, define the balance of electric to gas, and define the HHI.

I was thinking of having everyone that wants one of these to sign something like this?

MIMA Experimental Use

Thank you for participating in Experimental Use of an early version of the MIMA Manual Integrated Motor Assist. Your signature below affirms your understanding that the MIMA hardware and software supplied represent a new and developmental approach to achievement of improved gas mileage with the Honda Insight.

MIMA equipment supplied by Genesis One has been tested and found to be operational prior to shipment. Performance results and consequential effects, however, will be dependent upon MIMA installation and operation, both of which are beyond the control and responsibility of GenesisOne.

You are advised to read and follow the instructions and cautions provided with MIMA equipment, and to seek additional information, if necessary.

Mike Dabrowski
for Genesis One

Tel: 860-935-5569
Email: [email protected]
Website:

Above read, understood and accepted

Name (print) _____________________

Signature ________________________

Date ____________________
 

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I've been watching the MIMA posts with interest and wondered when the Liability issue would raise it's head.
It would seem obvious that if people choose to add this type of electronics that they would do so at their own risk. But you are smart to require this kind of signed statement just in case.
 

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Mike,

I'm not a lawyer, but I would add much stronger language, something like:
"You install/use MIMA entirely at your own risk. It is supplied without any expressed or implied warranty. MIMA is entirely experimental and untested and its use may have fatal consequences to the MIMA circuit, the Insight it is installed on or the person using it. We accept no liability for damage to equipment or health."

and so forth....


I know it sounds harsh, but lets face it, this is the risk involved in experimental technology of this level and anyone who doesn't accept it should leave his/her fingers off of it!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks Armin
new draft:
MIMA Experimental Use

Thank you for participating in Experimental Use of an early version of the MIMA Manual Integrated Motor Assist. Your signature below affirms your understanding that the MIMA hardware and software supplied represent a new and developmental approach to achievement of improved gas mileage with the Honda Insight.

MIMA equipment supplied by GenesisOne has been tested and found to be operational prior to shipment. Performance results and consequential effects, however, will be dependent upon MIMA installation and operation, both of which are beyond the control and responsibility of GenesisOne.

You are advised to read and follow the instructions and cautions provided with MIMA equipment, and to seek additional information, if necessary.

Final warning:
You install/use MIMA entirely at your own risk. It is supplied without any expressed or implied warranty. MIMA is entirely experimental and untested and its use may have fatal consequences to the MIMA circuit, the Insight it is installed on or the person using it. We accept no liability for damage to equipment or health.

Mike Dabrowski
for GenesisOne

Tel: 860-935-5569
Email: [email protected]
Website:

Above read, understood and accepted

Name (print) _____________________

Signature ________________________

Date ____________________
 

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I agree that you can't be too strong, as everyone doing it is going to be doing it of their own free will and with the ability to ignore common sense and safety but could always later try to blame someone else (the American way) if they have a problem.

I believe it is stronger to have the individual assert that they will not hold you responsible for anything, rather than have them sign something where you say you are not responsible for their problems.

My modification is:

=====================
=====================

I agree that I install/use MIMA entirely at my own risk. I understand that it is supplied without any expressed or implied warranty.

I understand that MIMA is entirely experimental and untested and its use or misuse may damage my Insight - possibly damaging both electrical and mechanical parts of my Insight not limited to just the hybrid system. I will not hold the developers of the MIMA system responsible for any damage to my Insight.

Furthermore, I understand that the MIMA system I install in my Insight may reduce safety standards of operation of my Insight. I understand that the installation and use of the MIMA system may place me and my passengers at risk of injury or death. I assume all responsibility for my installation of the MIMA system in this regard

=====================
=====================

Question: How does installation of a MIMA (or any other mod, for that matter) change how your insurance company would cover you in case of injury? If in a normal hybrid you somehow blow up the batteries by driving like a maniac or you drop them on your foot, you can sue Honda or anyone else and hope your insurance covers you to boot. Our country loves to see people file stupid lawsuits then they do something idiotic and abuse some equipment until it breaks and they hurt themselves! In this case, if you install a MIMA system and then your battery overheats and you get hurt, does this mean that your health and/or auto insurance will cover you or say you deserved it? Just a thought. Same goes for any mode, like turbo, wheels swaps etc. etc. There likely is a sliding scale determined on a case by case basis, I suppose.
 

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Liability

Unfortunately, both proposed disclaimer for the manual ima controller won't mean much of anything to a court. It would be a much better idea to protect yourself through incorporation, but even then, there's always the chance that the court will allow the plaintiff to "pierce the corporate veil."
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Modified draft:


MIMA Experimental Use

Thank you for participating in Experimental Use of an early version of the MIMA Manual Integrated Motor Assist. Your signature below affirms your understanding that the MIMA hardware and software supplied represent a new and developmental approach to achievement of improved gas mileage with the Honda Insight.

MIMA equipment supplied by GenesisOne has been tested and found to be operational prior to shipment. Performance results and consequential effects, however, will be dependent upon MIMA installation and operation, both of which are beyond the control and responsibility of GenesisOne.

You are advised to read and follow the instructions and cautions provided with MIMA equipment, and to seek additional information, if necessary.

Final warning:.
I agree that I install/use MIMA entirely at my own risk. I understand that it is supplied without any expressed or implied warranty.

I understand that MIMA is entirely experimental and untested and its use or misuse may damage my Insight - possibly damaging both electrical and mechanical parts of my Insight not limited to just the hybrid system. I will not hold the developers of the MIMA system responsible for any damage to my Insight.

Furthermore, I understand that the MIMA system I install in my Insight may reduce safety standards of operation of my Insight. I understand that the installation and use of the MIMA system may place me and my passengers at risk of injury or death. I assume all responsibility for my installation of the MIMA system in this regard

Mike Dabrowski
for GenesisOne

Tel: 860-935-5569
Email: [email protected]
Website:

Above read, understood and accepted

Name (print) _____________________

Signature ________________________

Date ____________________

Countchocula
You sound like you are talking from experience?
I have many times thought about incorporating, but at 59, I don't know how many more years I will want to do this type of development, and it would seriously complicate my record keeping and tax preparation.
What to do?
Any insight driving Lawyers out there?
 

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Not a lawyer here, but I think the basic problem starts when you accept money in compensation. Then you can't separate yourself so easily from liabilities. Maybe if its "at cost" there is a reduced liability. Better get a real legal opinion _before_ jumping off this cliff. :shock:

As an experimental kit and only as "illegal" legal advice, simply posting a how to is much less risky. But you'd still be wise to post the standard disclaimers of death, damage and destruction. :|
 

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It's a good idea to attempt to limit potential liability. However, a bigger problem is limiting liability to third parties. Say I just installed MIMA and I'm cruising along and am involved in an accident. The person I hit finds out (all though unlikely) that I have installed such an item and decides to sue me and the "manufacturer". I can't give legal advice outside the State of Texas so please don't consider this legal advice and consult an attorney in you state. With that said - another clause you would want to consider adding to your disclosure woudl probably be a binding arbitration clause and a choice of forum clause. Talk to a local attorney or do a search for the appropriate language.
 

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Mike Dabrowski 2000 said:
the installation and use of the MIMA system may place me and my passengers at risk of injury or death.
This is a tangent, but with or without MIMA in place, driving places more than the driver and passenger(s) at risk--other drivers, and even more so, pedestrians, bicyclists, and kids playing. Driving safely in public is a responsibility to others, not just something you do at your own discretion based on how many risks to yourself you want to take.

Charlie

[moderator edit to prevent un necessary thread "bump" up the list]

For those interested in the MIMA project or those still wondering what it is the threads have become too fragmented for the developer to maintain and he has requested that his other MIMA threads be locked.

Please understand that any further suggestions for design changes will not be honored since the process is too far along. However, since its *opertation* can be easily modded in software such limited opinions will be welcome.

A few of the old threads that will most likely answer all your questions are here:

Hybrid controls and the MIMA project
http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... php?t=2471

Mima Statue Update
http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... php?t=3176

MIMA L works in a CVT (automatic circuitry with foot pedal)
http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... php?t=3233
(Moderators note: the newest version of MIMA is CVT compatible)

MIMA Display and Joystick Housings
http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... php?t=3353

The developers site is here:

http://pages.cthome.net/genesisone/index.htm

Its a complex topic and modification. And one that should be carefully reviewed if your deciding on purchase. The purchase thread is here:

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... 9&start=15


The subject is still open for discussion at the developers selected for consolidation thread here:

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... php?t=3357

Locking other threads. Future MIMA threads will be locked and follow-up's directed to the thread above.

[end]
 
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