Honda Insight Forum banner

181 - 200 of 225 Posts

·
Premium Member
Chicago & Detroit
Joined
·
847 Posts
Discussion Starter #181
I have 181V at the top of the electronic circuit board, the same at the grid charger points (different from top posts), I have ~30 V at each pack, 165V at Fooler J13. I don't know what else to check. Oh, I could search using Google, for "Peter's gadget", or perhaps "No start using Peter's BCM Interceptor" or any number of searches that have no results because this, unfortunately new ground to plow, so to speak.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,586 Posts
If it isnt starting with the BCM Interceptor removed you have other problems going on.

I want to mention earth leads, engine grounds, 12v battery, are yours all perfect?
Are all your under dash and hood IMA related fuses intact?

Plug your OBDIIC&C in and set it up to show the following 8 IMA parameters.

"Mdv","MDM Voltage"
"Bvo","IMA Battery Voltage "
"Isb","IMA Standby Signal %"
"Mte","MDM Temperature "
"Alf","Assist Limit Flag "
"Rlf","Regen Limit Flag "
"Bte","IMA Battery Avg Temp"
"Hvc","HV Contactor Status "


Take pictures of the OBDIIC&C when the ignition is on, and with the engine running if you can get it started.

Obviously report any IMA or CEL lights and what codes you have.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,145 Posts
Your low 12V that you spoke of back in #114 is enough, if down around 10.5, to cause all you starting problems. Really low voltage on the 12V has always been an invitation to have all sorts of odd effects, including non-IMA start. Fortunately you can resolve this rather simple measure of putting the 12V on an external charger.

It may have just self discharged since I get the impression that you aren't driving the car while doing the LTO work. When running, is the dash battery light on?

From the above measurements, seems like the LTO pack is properly charged, so that isn't the problem. As Peter says, the problem is somewhere else. I don't want to enter the troubleshooting loop in any substantial way because Peter is obviously much better.

Good luck with it. I had a few initial shakedown problems myself, so just keep your chin up, read Peter's comments carefully, and keep testing. You'll kick yourself when you find the error ;)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,001 Posts
Last night the car was having trouble starting on the 12V so I charged the battery. I also thought this might explain the low 12V at the LTO BMS boards. This morning I had the same issue, only worse... the car wouldn't even start on the 12V. The radio works, all 100ma worth of load. A sound from the back implied it was 'groaning', tying to start on the IMA, but no.
The 12v should take over after holding the key in the start position for about 5 seconds, are you getting crank at all?
A couple of weeks ago I got stranded at the post office, I assumed it was related to the IMA I had just rebuilt. Turned out that the clutch switch wasn't engaging, so rule out the easy stuff first. (it's always the easy stuff that trips ya up)
 

·
Premium Member
Chicago & Detroit
Joined
·
847 Posts
Discussion Starter #185
I have to reinstall the one battery pack, the Fooler board in the BCM Interceptor board. Good tips on the grounds but especially on the clutch switch and the fuse. Maybe my foot was not down. Nothing is changing in the car since I drove it a week ago then the problems started. I'll just double check everything again. Thanks for the support.
 

·
Premium Member
Chicago & Detroit
Joined
·
847 Posts
Discussion Starter #186
In the Thread What is this Connector I asked a question and got several answers. It was suggested that I include that conversation, even though I don't think it relates to my problem, but who knows? Here are the key points:

Q: Can someone tell me what is this yellow connector? I'm interested if it's a power source. This connector is is tape-wrapped to the IMA wiring harness going to the BCM & MCM and electronic board. The color code of the three wires is Blk/yel, Yel/blk and Yel. My car is MY2000 and a MT. I removed the 'cap' (didn't want to come off) and here's the pic.

A: It's the IMA diode.

A: The three wires going to the diode are:
BLK/YEL: Hot when key is in ON or START position.
YEL/BLK (IGHLD): Hot when IMA is powered (i.e. when key is in ON or START position, plus ~10 seconds after leaving ON or START position).
YEL: This is the diode-ORed output of the above two signals. This signal (only) powers the ignition hold relay, which provides power to the IMA system. You'll want to use BRN/YEL for ground... I've dubbed this "engine ground," but it's essentially the low noise ground reference that all the computers in the car use. Unknown connector.jpg Connector top off.jpg
 

·
Premium Member
Chicago & Detroit
Joined
·
847 Posts
Discussion Starter #187
I got everything back in. Here's a pic before I connect the various boards.
I've circled several things:
power wire "bundle" w/ fuse attached from the pack +/- to the Fooler
power wires for the BCM Interceptor
2 pair of twisted wires for J4 & J5 of the BCM Interceptor, currently soldered together for troubleshooting.
Power wires for the LTO BMS / sensor boards
The Fooler board itself

I'm a bit afraid to connect everything for fear it won't work again. I'll start with only the Fooler connected as the BCM J4 & J5 wires are already connected together.
IMA Compartment.jpg
 

·
Premium Member
Chicago & Detroit
Joined
·
847 Posts
Discussion Starter #188
The pack is connected and the Fooler is connected. The BCM Interceptor is not powered but the intercepted wires connected to J4 & J5 are soldered together. I get 181V on top and 166V going to Fooler. Then I got some weird sh*t. I wasn’t getting some voltages at battery packs, then I was. Had good, solid connections. I had some high voltage, then I didn’t. Seems as though something on the electronic circuit board is faulty or at least intermittent, some intermittent cable connections or my meter is intermittent. When I got 0 I would go to ohms and verify continuity. All cables are tight to the each pack and when I had the electronic board out yesterday the cable ends seemed to be crimped tight too. I never liked the crimpers or the terminals (round end to accept cable) I bought because they only squeezed the wire, never really “W” crimped the wire.
The car started using the starter.

I have code P1644 which tells me something isn’t connected. Good, but what?

Tried to set the OBD2C&C parameters Peter suggested but had problems there too. Near as I can tell the new code calls for decimal numbers not hex like the previous version. Para 0 tried to be Mdv = 05 (I guess) but I was unable to get 05. I could get 04 and 06, but not 05. The Up didn’t work and only counted down. Alf = 15 (I guess) but again would only give me even numbers around 15. When I went too far, like 14, it would not go Up. I had to Cancel and not save which reset the number to 249 and took forever to get to what I didn’t want. Isb = 14 (I guess) and Bte = 0E (14 I guess) but since 14 = 14 didn’t get the Isb or Bte. The set screen is shown. When the car started using the 12V nothing populated. I show Para 1 as it started at V243.

Tomorrow I don’t know what I’ll do, maybe remove the LTO BMS boards and try again, even though they are not connected to anything, I’ll have better access to the batteries. What a PITA.
20200505_193552.jpg 20200505_182155.jpg
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,586 Posts
Don't remove the LTO BMS boards at this stage, just unplug them from your harness.

I have sent John a corrected version of the OBDIIC&C firmware with the parameter selection bug fixed and the 8 parameters I want to watch already set.

It doesn't look like it is talking to the car on the HLine in the picture you posted so that's another issue or was the car off?

P1644 = Likely blown under dash/hood IMA fuse as I mentioned.
Or fuse back in wrong hole under dash etc etc.

The fact the OBDIIC&C isn't talking to the MCM as above also indicates no 12V power to the MCM. Don't rely on visual fuse checks get a continuity meter on them as well.

Does the IMA light come on when you first turn on the ignition? It should, then go off.
 

·
Premium Member
Chicago & Detroit
Joined
·
847 Posts
Discussion Starter #190
How can this setup be bad... I have good batteries, the same BCM and MCM and a Fooler that works with both and the light works. The current configuration has the BCM Interceptor out of the circuit with J4 & J5 wires connected off the board. For an odd reason it seems as though 180V does not always appear on the top connectors... weird.. DMM issue? I think not, but anything's possible. I don't have a backup.
I'm trying to think What Has Changed. Nothing has changed with regard to hardware. The electronic circuit board has been removed three times and the BCM Interceptor has been in and out a couple of times (the Fooler has been out once). When last connected the Interceptor light flashed. The BCM and MCM haven't been moved. I did splice (not disconnected) into MCM A pins 9 (blk/yel) & 10 (blk) for 12V power for the LTO BCM but all LTO BMS wires and CANBUS are disconnected now. So I'm back to when it drove several days ago. The 15A IMA fuse under the hood is good. Is there one under the dash? The grounds were good a while ago and the car has not been driven much since September. I'll double check tomorrow, but the car starts.

  • Is the car talking on the HLine in the picture? I'll check in the morning with ignition on... does the engine need to be running?
  • P1644 = Likely blown under dash/hood IMA fuse as I mentioned. The fuse under the hood (5) was good. Is there another under the dash?
  • The IMA light comes on when you first turn on the ignition. I'll check if it goes out in the morning... I think so
  • You suggest no 12V at the MCM. Where do you suggest I check. The wires in all connectors look good.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,586 Posts
There are several IMA related fuses under the dash.
Some are just marked with a book symbol.
Look in your manual for details or on the back of the cubby hole.
Check all the fuses!!

The car is not talking on the HLIne in that picture you posted.

We will suggest wires when you have done the fuses
 

·
Premium Member
Chicago & Detroit
Joined
·
847 Posts
Discussion Starter #192
the new code does not work. The display is shown. I loaded pre-2680 software and the display lit and displayed and enabled me to go from item to item.
I checked all grounds. Look good.
The IMA light does not come on, therefore doesn't go off.
Checked all fuses under dash, twice. All good.
Car starts on 12V.
I measure 181V at grid charger points. Mo voltage between two main cable connections on the top of the switchboard. BUT I measure 181V between the grid charger + and the positive post on the top of the switchboard and between the grid charger + and the negative post.
20200506_123012.jpg
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,586 Posts
Forget about the high voltages for now, they are not a problem at present.
You can try the OBDIIC&C code again when we get your MCM working.


If the IMA light doesnt come on you have no 12V power at the MCM in the back so nothing else is going to work.

Maybe you have blown that diode. Do you have a spare?

It's time to get the manual out and start probing the 12V voltages at the MCM connector pins. The manual clearly states what voltages you should expect to see with the ignition on /off on the various MCM connector power feed pins. Follow that and report back with any discrepancies from what is expected in the manual.

Do not connect your LTO BMS harness back up until we have checked it later.
 

·
Premium Member
Chicago & Detroit
Joined
·
847 Posts
Discussion Starter #194
Today I pulled out the aluminum plate along with the batteries. Had to do some tidying up. When I secured the BCM/MCM to the plate I had drilled the holes in my steel-bar securing piece in a location that didn't allow me to pull the two modules with the plate was in-place. I knew that after the holes were drilled but getting that steel bar to length was the issue and I don't have good equipment to shortened it, so I left it. Now I still don't have the equipment but I think it's a requirement so I muddled through it.

I have all the 12V locations id'd on the five MCM connectors. I've also id'd several fuses that go into the system. Tomorrow I'll put the system together and measure voltages.
 

·
Premium Member
Chicago & Detroit
Joined
·
847 Posts
Discussion Starter #195 (Edited)
after modifying the module-securing plate and securing the plate and batteries, with the BCM Interceptor out of the circuit and allowing for a hokey BCM/MCM setup, IT WORKS! Now I have to put the modules back, try again, then attach the Interceptor. Then do the CANBUS stuff. Step-by-step.
I can't tell you how relieved I am. That means I'm working again and have a good starting point.
lose modules.jpg
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,586 Posts

·
Premium Member
Chicago & Detroit
Joined
·
847 Posts
Discussion Starter #197 (Edited)
I'm not totally sure... when I started to take everything apart so I could remove the plate I noticed the connectors behind and in the middle of the seats, C505 & C506 were disconnected. I decided I really needed to modify the module-securing piece so I wasn't going to plug-in to see. I decided I needed to do a complete inspection of everything, inside modules, etc. So if I had to guess I shot myself in the foot, again. Over the last several days those connectors were plugged in so it had to be something else. It's my guess the "original" problem was a plug-issue. Doesn't make sense since they lock-in, but...
It's not done yet but all boards are made and wired correctly, so (fingers crossed) everything will go smoothly.
PS - I measured the diodes and they were fine... really high impedance for a standard diode but they were the same.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,586 Posts
I'm not totally sure... when I started to take everything apart so I could remove the plate I noticed the connectors behind and in the middle of the seats, C505 & C506 were disconnected.
That will do it!!

Banging my head on the table as we speak..:oops:
 

·
Premium Member
Chicago & Detroit
Joined
·
847 Posts
Discussion Starter #199
Found the real problem... kinda. With the modules installed and plugged in, it didn't start with IMA. As I surmised the issue is with the four plugs into the MCM. I'll try relieving some strain by cutting away that part of the bulkhead that is pressing hard. Step-by-step.
 

·
Premium Member
Chicago & Detroit
Joined
·
847 Posts
Discussion Starter #200
I pulled the harness out and scrutinized every female pin and wire. I tugged gently and found nothing. I put small tie raps on each plug's bundle of wires to support all the wires better. I sat the modules on-top of the battery in a precarious place to start the car. IT STARTED with the IMA! I moved the harness around a bit and verified the start. Yes! I put the modules in the 'hole' in a temporary fashion and verified the start. Yes! I finally moved the modules to their home location and secured them and verified the start. Yes. I don't know what else to do because whatever the problem was it doesn't make the car stop... it only prevents it from an IMA start. Difficult position.
So at this point the only 'change' was to secure each connector's wired bundle with a small tie wrap. I'll see what happens in the morning.
 
181 - 200 of 225 Posts
Top