[retepsnikrep]

The VPIN system is nothing to do with P1565.

I have no idea why your soc is going up and down.

The CEL comes on in response to the IMA light turning on.

 

[minor4326]

Doesn't the Vpin have something to do with the SOC guage?

 

[retepsnikrep]

Doesn't the Vpin have something to do with the SOC guage?

no

 

[minor4326]

It's suggested that my IMA & CEL lights come on due to connection issues. Ok, I can understand that but I can't correlate the frequency of bumps I drive over with regard to setting the condition off. I can drive on a really bumpy road or a smoother road with regular seam bumps and the lights don't light. Or I can drive over a relatively smooth highway and the lights go off. Can someone please help me to understand this disparity?

 

[minor4326]

My IMA /CEL issue has morphed into the situation where the IMA/CEL now light-up very frequently. Turning the car off now also causes the problem. So when IMA/CEL lights are off, I park the car and turn it off. When I next turn it on both lights are on (don't go off) and I have no Regen or Accel functions.
This problem seems to be more electronic than mechanical, ie pins or connector seating. Also as I mentioned before when the IMA/CEL lights are on while driving I can turn the ignition switch off - on quickly and the IMA light goes off and I regain function.
I'm hoping for suggestions as to where to look to cure this vexing problem.

 

[retepsnikrep]

What is the current IMA code?
If it is still P1565 (Commutation sensors) then you need to do proper diagnostics on that.
If you get lucky it might just be bad connections, if not then you will have to replace the sensors.

My money is still on bad connections/wiring at this time..

It's a long way through various old damp/crusty connectors from the sensors in the motor to the MCM.
It's also fairly weak logic level signals so won't take much to disrupt it.

 

[minor4326]

My electronic Gremlins have returned. I need the Big Guns @mudder and @KLR3CYL (again).
During the last iteration my IMA light would come on everytime I turned off the ignition, or it would turn on while driving. At that time I was only able to turn off the IMA light upon switching the ignition off just for a second (to break an electrical contact) and then restart it instantly (driving or parked trying to initially start). When I was starting the car from cold the IMA light would be on before I started (from previous turning off) so I would turn the ignition off and then turn it back on so the IMA light would go off, enabling me to start the car with the IMA. I would then cancel the CEL light with the OBD2 C&C. One time I was in the parking lot when I stalled the car. I restart the car from the Ignition I position ( on position) and it started with the IMA, ie I did not turn the car or the ignition completely off.
People suggested that I clean all the connector-pins; I did that a couple days ago. I took the commutator connector apart at the rear of the engine, C103 connector under the center dash apart, C505 behind and between the seats apart and I took out all the MCM connectors. I cleaned them all very thoroughly with electronic spray using about 3/4 of one can. After that I could not get rid of the IMA / CEL lights. The only time the IMA light was not present at start is after it sat for 30 minutes or longer, then when started it would come on instantly again.
Today I took all four connectors apart again and did a continuity check between the Commutator and C103, put that together, Commutator to C505, then Commutator to D connector in the MCM. All values were very close to the same at roughly a short.
I put all connectors back together and heard solid clicks.
Now, at this time I do not get the IMA / CEL lights. I haven't driven the car but started it and stopped it multiple times in the garage with the same positive result.
I'm not confident this problem with the IMA-CEL lights won't come back. This is the second time I checked continuity and the problem went away for several weeks. It seems to me like there is a capacitance within the lines and when I do a continuity check the capacitance gets "relieved" and everything works well. I think what the problem indicated was there was never a mechanical connection problem but some sort of an electrical one.
Can someone please suggest how to go about troubleshooting this problem when it happens again.
Thanks.

 

[retepsnikrep]

Being only a little gun I think you are making some progress.
Drive it and see if you get the commutation error back again.

Maybe get someone to waggle the relevant connectors and watch for the IMA while it is ticking over.
I suspect the one behind the seat panel, that's the one that failed in my car.
I hardwire bypassed it.

 

[mudder]

Being only a little gun I think you are making some progress.

I didn't think guns were legal in the UK. Maybe as a retired officer you can keep a firearm? Wait, y'all don't even carry them in uniform, right?

Drive it and see if you get the commutation error back again.
Maybe get someone to waggle the relevant connectors and watch for the IMA while it is ticking over.

I agree. This sounds like an intermittent wire/contact issue. Short of swapping in known-good harnesses, you'll just need to keep jiggling until it works.

I suspect the one behind the seat panel, that's the one that failed in my car.
I hardwire bypassed it.

Hardwire bypass is a potential solution... if the connector is the issue.

 

[minor4326]

@mudder what makes you think a physical connection problem exists when I explained problems that indicate electrical ones, ie IMA goes away every time the ignition is turned off and car restarted while moving clears it, and every time the ignition and car is turned off sets it on. Also when I cleaned the connectors, both times, I got worse problems. AND when I checked continuity both times the problem went away for a period of time. Seems like checking continuity makes it go away and not the disconnect/reconnection to perform that operation.

 

[mudder]

If you "got worse problems" when you cleaned the connectors, then it's almost certainly the connectors. Reason: If the connectors are working properly, proper cleaning isn't going to make them stop working. Whereas, if they're in rough shape, then proper cleaning could make them worse.

Unfortunately you're at the point in your troubleshooting journey where you need to acquire several "known-good" parts, and just start swapping them in until the issue goes away.

 

[*sean*]

In all the probing of the contacts you could have expanded them to the point they make weak contact. Diminished contact pressure may be allowing oxidation where they contact to separate the conductors. Or, maybe the socket pins are so loose that they momentarily open during a good bounce???

Or maybe it's something entirely different.

 

[minor4326]

Peter,. Could you please post a picture of one pair of your connectors hard wired. I can imagine doing it in several different ways but I'd like to see the way you did it, because it's probably the best way.

 

[retepsnikrep]

I don't have that car anymore so can't post pics sorry.

You obviously need to confirm which connector or wire/s is/are the problem.
Have you done that ?
Wiggling the connector behind the seats in my car made the IMA light and commutation code come on.

IIRC I just bypassed all 9 signal/power/gnd wires.
I.E I just spliced in a jumper wire across the connector for the 9 signals.

This basically created a bigger harness and combined the IMA part with the under carpet part.

 

[*sean*]

I would use the IMA code and Service Manual to identify which wires are suspects for that code, then find the connectors they pass through, then remove the socket contacts and verify that they are not spread open and are still making firm contact with the pin contacts. All the necessary info for this, including how to remove the contacts from the housings, is in the Service and Electrical Troubleshooting manuals. Good luck!

 

[mudder]

Peter,. Could you please post a picture of one pair of your connectors hard wired. I can imagine doing it in several different ways but I'd like to see the way you did it, because it's probably the best way.

I recommend shrink butt connectors.

 

[minor4326]

I ran over a bit of snow that stretched/broke one of the leading edge's passenger under-panel fastener holes. My solution was to make a piece of metal which covers the passenger-side leading edge of this panel. Because of the complexity of angles and heights I made two separate pieces and welded them together. I then had it powder coated. Since I wanted it cheap and quickly i used the color currently being used. I secured this piece to the front two bolts and the middle point is on a suspension point.

 

[mudder]

Show it mounted on the car, too.

 

[minor4326]

Good idea. I hope to put it on Wednesday.

 

[minor4326]

pics of metal passenger-panel leading edge lip. The fit came out really well, but it should have with the hours I put into it to try to make it perfect.