Honda Insight Forum banner

161 - 180 of 225 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,586 Posts
I mean the LTO BMS boards in the blocks. They require 12V. You might call them the sensor boards?

You have 12V in the IMA compartment on various ign switched wires. Have a look in the owners manual.

Please show your two CAN termination resistors.

Have you added the various extra etc capacitors to the OBDIIC&C I did to mine.
They were clearly shown in recent videos. Please post better pictures of it.

As Jime points out you will also have to fix that jumper/board or the OBDIIC&C will throw constant errors seeing a cell or two at 0V :cry:
 

·
Premium Member
Chicago & Detroit
Joined
·
847 Posts
Discussion Starter #162
I'm not going to take apart the OBD2C&C as it's rather involved. I put a 120 ohm resistor directly across the two wires at the CAN board from the sensor boards. On the other end I put another 120 ohm resistor across the same wires, other end, where the wires come out of the harness I made.
As I said above I did not connect any resistors, caps, switch or button. I didn't think that was necessary if I didn't want to engage the Cruise.
Come-on mate, give me a clue where I can easily tap into a 12V, controlled source. Give me a couple of choices.
 

·
Premium Member
Chicago & Detroit
Joined
·
847 Posts
Discussion Starter #163
after spending quite some time removing the BCM & MCM harnesses, pulling pins and attaching 12V and gnd to MCM A pins 9 (blk/yel) & 10, I got 5V. Please tell me where to catch several 12V points. I could try BCM B pin 10 but that might be wrong again. Is it ok to keep my ground at BCM A pin 10 or is that ground different? What about the additional components I didn't add - are they for the cruise?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,586 Posts
Apart from the switch for the cruise, the extra components were added to reduce interference.

I suggest use

Pins 9 and 10 on MCM Connector A

A9 blk/yel = Ign 12V+
A10 blk = Ground

or

Pins 1 and 12 on BCM connector A

A1 pnk/blu = Ign 12V+
A12 black = Ground
 

·
Premium Member
Chicago & Detroit
Joined
·
847 Posts
Discussion Starter #165
without the caps and resistors to reduce noise, I measured the voltage at Pins 9 and 10 on MCM Connector A (A9 blk/yel = Ign 12V+, A10 blk = Ground) and measured 5.0V. How can that be?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,586 Posts

·
Premium Member
Chicago & Detroit
Joined
·
847 Posts
Discussion Starter #168
I'm afraid that's not very helpful. If I knew what terms to search for I'd be there in said 30 seconds.
 

·
Premium Member
Chicago & Detroit
Joined
·
847 Posts
Discussion Starter #169
This morning the car used the starter to start... a real set-back. I measured the 12V point and w/ no load it measured correctly. Then voltage measurements were all over the place from pack zero's to nothing much at the top tow connectors to dwindling small values at a number of places as if a cap were in the way and slowly discharging. Really discouraging. The BCM Interceptor and Fooler lights were still flashing. I disconnected all Sensor board wires and no difference. I looked for bent pins on connectors on the electronic circuit board side, rechecked connections (there are eight total required to disconnect before the harness can be pulled, leaving the five on the BCM/MCM).
I pulled the harness again to scrutinize closer.
harness.jpg
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,083 Posts
This whole deal is disturbing. I have pretty much everything I need to do an LTO conversion. Now I'm not sure I'll do it. So far this particular project has 268 posts and it still isn't working. I'm not up for dealing with "Minor" problems like this. Have I missed something?

Sam
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,767 Posts
I have thought similarly that this whole post will probably scare many people from trying this or at least reconsider how extensive a project an LTO conversion is.

Or is most of this just a, “Minor problem”?

Scott
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,586 Posts
I expect we will get John's conversion going in the end.

So my suggestions for now.

1) Remove the BCM Interceptor. Does the system operate normally consistently for several days?
2) Review all the videos and posts on the various LTO mods/conversions and decide what you want to do.
3) Post detailed pictures of your BCM interceptor (front and back of pcb)

Even with the BCM interceptor removed you should be able to make progress on the OBDIIC&C CAN BMS modules side.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,586 Posts
Some video info on using and setting up the OBDIIC&C CAN LTO software.
This assumes your hardware is all assembled and connected correctly and working.

 

·
Premium Member
Chicago & Detroit
Joined
·
847 Posts
Discussion Starter #174 (Edited)
I expect we will get John's conversion going in the end.

Post detailed pictures of your BCM interceptor (front and back of pcb)
the top of my BCM Interceptor board from my thread minor4326 LTO, Post #99. The bottom side is clean from flux and all good connections.
BCM Interceptor.jpg
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,885 Posts
This whole deal is disturbing. I have pretty much everything I need to do an LTO conversion. Now I'm not sure I'll do it. So far this particular project has 268 posts and it still isn't working. I'm not up for dealing with "Minor" problems like this. Have I missed something?
YMMV
No one specific example pulled at random , is guaranteed to be representative.
One random example might make it look un-representatively easy.
Another random example might make it look un-representatively difficult.
As far as I know this one in particular is only one out of about a dozen LTO conversions that have been done.
YMMV

It's your car .. do or don't do , whatever you like.
 

·
Premium Member
Chicago & Detroit
Joined
·
847 Posts
Discussion Starter #176
To answer Scott's and Sam's observations: I try to be studious and gather parts and information together before hand. I sometimes jump quickly and step all-over myself. I'm thinking this is going to turn-out to be a really obvious, simple thing that I've overlooked. Those can be the hardest because we assume too much. I'm going back to double-check everything.

Today it got worse... this is really getting discouraging and wearing me out. Last night the car was having trouble starting on the 12V so I charged the battery. I also thought this might explain the low 12V at the LTO BMS boards. This morning I had the same issue, only worse... the car wouldn't even start on the 12V. The radio works, all 100ma worth of load. A sound from the back implied it was 'groaning', tying to start on the IMA, but no. No wires are connected to the LTO BMS or CAN ; I revisited the BCM interceptor board connections and they were 'perfect'. I measured the top electronic circuit board points and got 181V. I measured the pack connections on the Fooler and got 165V (I have a 137 ohm resistor in-line). So I connected the J4 and J5 wires together from the BCM Interceptor... didn't help, nothing. I pulled one pack to enable me to remove the Fooler connections. I removed the Interceptor too. enclosed are new pics of front and back of each.
20200504_162113.jpg 20200504_152749.jpg 20200504_155426.jpg Fooler pic.jpg
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,083 Posts
Thanks, Ian! I know, I know. It's just disturbing that this particular one has required so much "tech support". I have a spare car to set it up in, so the project can take as much time I need. It's no big deal, except for the possible frustration, most of which I'll probably be able to avoid.

Sam
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Responding to something Peter said:
We managed GTS850's tricky LTO conversion at Insight Fest because we had key people there, some skills and some budget. It worked first turn of the key IIRC and still is asfaik?

I’m sorry for this long post on Peters’s thread but I wanted to show another side of the same coin. I do not want to make anyone feel bad because often things don’t go as planned and whenever everything goes right, there was probably a lot of good luck thrown in!

Everything went smoothly with my 84-cell LTO installation. As Peter mentioned, it worked perfectly with first turn of the key and it has been working perfectly ever since.

From my perspective the installation was not tricky. Bulldog and Peter provided the electronics and I am grateful for their help with the installation and setup. As a testament, I have not upgraded any hardware or software. I have a desire to play around with it, but my old PC is retired and my Mac’s storage space is all used up. I’m about to pull the trigger on a new PC.

Total cost of the installation, considering battery mounting hardware, LTO batteries, BCM replacer, OBDIIC&C, IMAC&C, current hack, and labor for Isaac and Peter was probably only slightly greater than what I would have to paid someone for a new OEM battery installation. This LTO conversion is of great value to me considering the enjoyment of driving the vehicle! It’s way beyond what even a brand new Honda Insight could have provided me!

Early adopters of 84-cell, 72-cell, 60-cell, and now 48-cell conversions have been, and are still paving the way. There are generally hurdles along the way any time great strides in progress are being made.

I was very fortunate the timing of my installation corresponded to Peter coming to the States for InsightFest2019! The batteries arrived Aug 26, 2019 and precisely 2 weeks later I was driving my rejuvenated Honda Insight back home from InsightFest.

I have been toying with the idea of building a 96-cell conversion, not only because the high voltage appeals to me but to also just to prove it can be done. If InsightFest2020 materializes then I’ll have extra incentive to get a 96 cell installation working in time.

This is my take on the LTO options. There really isn’t a one size fits all or else there wouldn’t be over 1,000 different car makes and models, considering all the options. Someone could come up with a whole list or pros and cons for each option to justify what works best for them. Because of what’s discussed in this thread all of these options are now available to anyone with the desires, skills, and resources to make it happen.

Knowing Peter, the 48 cell option would be a no fuss installation. This is with the assumption that some entrepreneur takes on the harder work of building up a drop-in package. Then it would be simply be a matter unplugging and removing the old and then dropping in and plugging in the new.

It seems this option would be appealing for almost anyone, considering the fact that 48-cell LTO will probably perform better than OEM. The expected useful life would be longer and it would probably cost about the same or even less than OEM.

Just my two cents for what it’s worth.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,147 Posts
If you don't have the ETM, then help yourself again and go look for it. With the correct terms, a Google search will locate it in less than 30 seconds.
He has a hard copy of the ETM. Of course, it is also downloadable here, but the d/l isn't very convenient to use.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,147 Posts
John, sorry I haven't been able to follow the thread more closely, but I have my hands full with family health problems. Anyway, if it isn't starting on the LTO, a quick and easy test would be to measure each of the 24 cell packs at their end terminals. You should have at least 1.5V/cell, or 36.5V/pack. You may have discharged the packs with some inadvertent wiring mistake. You may have already taken these measurements and I missed it. I only have a little time to read threads in detail. Only takes a moment to check the terminal voltages.

Sorry I can't help more, but you are in better hands with Peter.

It is my observation, just guessing, that you may have tried to do to much at one time. With mods, I'm a fan of keeping the initial operating capability as simple as possible until the basic configuration is satisfactory and then add other functions if so desired. To me, that seems the simpler approach and least prone to error.
 
161 - 180 of 225 Posts
Top