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Minor4326 LTO Conversion

28K views 480 replies 18 participants last post by  Rainsux 
#1 · (Edited)
I wanted to document the layout and external (Peter) boards I use, my questions and the answers I received as well as my build techniques. This current thread starts out with old posts from several threads.

Before I started my project I studied jime build threads JimE LTO Conversion JimE LTO Conversion and LTO Layout #2 LTO Layout #2 Since then I’ve used ideas from Natalya LTO Conversion thread

Here’s jime’s diagram of the plate I copied in which to mount the three LTO packs. I modified it at the red line and used the red dimensions so it would fit easier.

Drawing Technical drawing Parallel Line Diagram


I used .25 x1 1/2" (Metric equivalent) fine thread for hold down bolts on the LTO packs.. That gives a 12mm head and fits through the spacers and holes in the tabs.

Since I have not made the final install yet I have made two choices for spacers: 1 1/8 x1/2 diameter aluminum spacers with 1/4" holes. Since alignment of all this is difficult, I used slightly larger holes, like 5/16 holes. I also have 1” hollow, square aluminum tubing with holes drilled in the appropriate locations. I used a piece of wood as a transfer template for hole locations.
 
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#263 · (Edited)
The MCM is probably turning the DC-DC off because it doesn't like something..
If you unplug MCM connector A or cut the grn/black DC inhibit wire it will probably go off.

However that does not solve the original problem of why the MCM is inhibiting it.
 
#264 ·
Can someone please look at the schematics and pic I’ve posted and tell me what voltage to expect at the circled points, or suggest what may be causing my problems.

I’ve been having a heck of a time keeping my car 0n the road because of different failure modes and now it only starts from 12 V and runs, with no dash lights Except the Battery Charge light.

With ignition on and not running there is ~9 V at the HV and no volts at Grid Charger input. With car running, 90 V at HV and hardly anything at Grid Charger input.

As indicated by the OBD2C&C CAN BUS feed from the LTO BMS I have 183 V at the battery pack.

I've 'instrumented' six places on the board, plus access to the 2-pin connector that controls the HV Contactor; the Bypass Contactor +and - ; the Hi V Contactor where high voltage goes; and the points that energize the Bypass Contactor.
Text Font Line Parallel
Machine Electronics Auto part Engine Vehicle
 
#265 ·
Have you tested the 100amp fuse under the cover on the corner of the hybrid battery?

Scott
 
#271 ·
My main concern would now be why has the main fuse blown if it has.

1) Are/did you use the current hack without upgrading from stock 100A?

2) Is your high current wiring wrong in some way?
 
#272 ·
I had a 150A fuse installed. I have to think blowing the fuse was an anomoly since I've run the system w/o issue several months until I had a long pedal-to-the floor experience. Out of exasperation I removed everything and am temporarily going back to a stock NiMH system. I just finished grid charging the old pack.
 
#273 · (Edited)
I decided to revert to my original NiMH pack as a way to confirm the Dc-DC and the left side of the compartment was ok. Today after making the bridge for the HV leads, I turned the key and heard the Sweet Sound of the IMA starting the car. Sooo Sweet! I only ran the car for a minute or so and noticed the SOC gauge was zero (as expected) and the system was charging at three bars. I am using a different Switchboard and a different harness.

The LTO pack is (was) charged and the individual cells were balanced as showing on my OBD2C&C via CAN Bus, and my Fooler resistors are 0.1%. I had the Interceptor by-passed. I'm pretty sure both sides of the switchboard was sufficiently isolated.

Now I have to determine what was not working. I will switch the HV and Pre Contactors that I thought were the problem from my LTO Switchboard to the current switchboard in order to eliminate that issue. I was getting P-codes 1576 and 1445 recently. I have another 150A fuse.

I am at a lose as to how to approach my dilemma. @retepsnikrep and @mudder I sure could use your help as to what to do and where to go from here. I'm now going to take it for a drive to check it out more.
EDIT: I have my original, unmodified BCM and I removed the resistor from the MCM (or visa versa) so this is a 100 standard setup. The modified modules (current hack board and resistor) were both working for several months w/o problems and neither appear to have bad components.
SOC gauge is 100% and regen and assist work, as well as AutoStop.

The pic is how I bridged the gap since I shortened my HV leads to better fir the LTO conversion.
Technology Cable Electronic device Auto part Wire
 
#274 ·
Here is what I think you should do. Forget this car for now. Buy another one that hasn't been messed with. Then do whatever you're doing on the new car. Do it slowly, one step at a time, and check each step for problems before moving on to the next one. I'll lend you one of mine if you want to come get it. Or do the mods here.

I just helped a friend with an Insight that wouldn't start. A well known shop in town was unable to figure it out. His troubleshooting was solid. My friend and I finally fixed it. The problem turned out to be two unrelated user errors, that you wouldn't expect somebody to do. Things that normal troubleshooting wouldn't (and didn't) find. My friend knew just enough to get himself in trouble. Who knows how much of this stuff is lurking around in your car, with all of the changes you've made.

Think about it!

Sam
 
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#275 · (Edited)
thanks for the input Sam. Very generous of you to make the offer. Very scary story you tell. I totally believe it. You made me consider my proposed path forward.

What do I have that's different or messed-with.
Rear wiring harness
Interceptor board
Fooler Board.

After I switch the two components I mentioned on the Switchboards, and assuming they are good, I'm going to reinstall the LTO pack and the Fooler board only. By doing this I won't be modifying the rear harness at all. So what will be messed-with going forward: nothing except install the Fooler to insure equal voltages.

I won't have a hacked-up harness that includes: CAN Bus B+; VCC to supply the Interceptor; the Current hack board on the MCM; the resistor in the BCM; the 'Intercept' wires between the MCM and BCM. I'll maintain the 'original' BCM and MCM modules working and use a different Switchboard, although my LTO one has no electronic mods, only physical connections for pack voltages.

What's baffling to me is everything worked correctly for a time.

What do you and others think?

EDIT, EDIT: Peter, if I go my proposed way above, should J13 going to the LTO pack positive have the in-line 20k resistor, alone with no VPin resistor?
 
#276 ·
I kinda agree with Sam. If you need the Insight for basic transportation (?) then I'd get another car for that. Then take out all the enhancements and try to get the most basic configuration running. Forget all the enhancements until you have the very basic LTO pack running reliably. If you want to measure cell voltages from time to time, drill holes in the cover, as I showed in my thread, and use a meter.

The more enhancements you add the more complicated your setup becomes, and the more likely you are to make an error.

Once you have the basic configuration running, then you can add enhancements one at a time.
 
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#279 ·
I switched the two components between the switchboards so I know that either one, my modified LTO one and my extra one have good components. The car is back to original and rund great, although less power due to no LTO current hack.
Next weekend I will reinstall the LTO pack, the LTO switchboard and use only the Fooler without any external resistors. I'll also use the current, unmodified BCM and MCM. I believe the car will run 'normally'. In the meantime I'll drive the car.
 
#280 ·
Sounds like you're doing more than one thing at a time again. I've totally lost track of what you're doing, so I might be wrong. What about wiring harnesses? Are any of them hacked? Thus the suggestion of starting over with a different car.

Sam
 
#281 ·
I think he is installing the "minimum" required to make the LTO run at all. The fooler is required to keep the BCM happy, since one can't use the normal tap harness. (Only the 60 cell configuration will function with the stock tap wires.)

Unmodified BCM and MCM.

The switchboard must have modified high current attachments since the stock hardware doesn't work for the LTO packs. (Make sure no connection has the potential to shift and touch the mounting plate.) Make sure the main fuse in installed properly and isn't blown.

Temporarily resolder any cut wires in the harness. (Do not make twist reconnections.) An unmolested harness would be better if available.

If he gets it to work at this level, then he has a solid baseline.

PLEASE drill the covers over the pos. and neg. side of each cell, so that you can monitor the cell voltages with a meter as desired. Mark and drill small holes adequate for you meter probes. The CAN bus approach is a convenient and powerful function, but the wiring has several sources of potential wiring mistakes. For now, you are best off without all that, plus all the mods to the OBDII C&C, IMHO.

If this "minimal" configuration works, you can add back functions, ONE AT A TIME, being super careful with the installation instructions. Near as I can tell, each of these mods have been explained in the various threads.
 
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#282 · (Edited)
Edited:
Peter, when I re-install my LTO and ancillary parts I want to set the tiny switches on the small current hack board in the MCM to the 20% mode. I’m confused about the value resistor to install into the BCM? Can you confirm the values Bradleyb posted, or give me the exact value. Would this be a 1% tolerance?
560R - 20% (total resistance 85R)
240R - 40% (total resistance 70R)

87743
 
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