[Rushfan]

Greeting all. I am a new Insight owner and new to this forum. I apologize if this has been discussed already, but I have a question about the best brand of gas to use. The manual says not to use gas with the MMT additive. Can someone tell me what brand of gas doesn't have this additive?

Thanks,
Nelson

 

[Tim Maddux]

Judging from what I could Google, you don't have to worry about MMT (methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl) unless you are in Canada.

EPA info:
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/addi ... t_cmts.htm

 

[Holicow]

Yeah, I looked, and that's all I could find, too. I've never heard of it. It's an octane booster that apparently isn't used in the US. Where are you?

 

[Rick]

I think I recall a canadian owner (might have been on Yahoo-Hybrids) saying that he had to use premium to not get MMT in his fuel. If your in the states you should be fine. The Insight is capable of running on fuel with MTBE (yeah they're phasing this out) and E10, 10% ethanol winter blend gas.

 

[Foxpaw]

MMT in Canadian fuel, you say? Do you know where I can find information on what stations sell gas with this MMT in it? I've just been getting mine at Superstore.

 

[Rick]

I'm not familiar with canadian regulations, but here in the US there are stickers on the pumps which say whats in the gas durring which period of the year. You might check that if they have similar ones in Canada.

 

[meow77]

For Canadians... all the gas companies in Canada use MMT which is garbage for the insights CAT. The only gas that doesn't have mmt in it is sunoco's 94 octane which is the only gas I will use on this car

 

[Guillermo]

This really sucks!
Here is the full story that canadians should read:

http://www.ukar.org/mmt/mmt01.html

 

[meow77]

just buy sunoco 94 octane and you'll be ok... I won't use the lower grade gases in my car

 

[Guillermo]

I'm trying to find out if someone elses lower grade fuels don't use MMT. I'll let you know what my replies are.

 

[Foxpaw]

What's this sunoco you speak of? I've never heard of that brand, nor seen a station with that name.

 

[Guillermo]

Good news reply from Shell Canada:

RE: MMT additive (file#1795311)
1 message
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SCAN Questions, SCAN-- <[email protected]>
Tue, Nov 2, 2004 at 3:08PM
To: Guillermo

Guillermo,

Thank you for visiting Shell Canada's web site and please accept my apologies for the delay in responding.

As of January 2004, Shell Canada Products has suspended the use of MMT in gasoline produced at its refineries in Canada until information on the effect of MMT on vehicle emission control technology is assessed by the Environment Canada Independent Review Panel. The panel plans to start work early in 2004, with findings expected by year-end. Shell supports this independent scientific effort, and encourages the panel to complete its assessment as soon as possible.

Shell will cooperate fully with the review panel and encourages other stakeholders to do the same. Shell Canada supports open science-based processes as the basis for developing public policy and supports the Federal Government's third party review of MMT.

Why is Shell taking out MMT now? What has changed to caused Shell to act? We believe we should suspend the use of MMT while the Independent Review Panel assesses data on the impact of MMT on vehicle emission control technology. This is the first such independent review panel assembled in Canada to assess new data on MMT (we continue to support a scientific basis to better assess this issue, a position we have held since 1993).

Will you sell MMT-free gasoline? Why doesn't Shell require suppliers to provide them with MMT free gasoline? Gasoline sold at Shell-branded sites may not be entirely MMT-free because base gasoline purchased by Shell from other producers or importers may contain MMT.

Best regards,

Natasha Guillot
Customer Support Centre
Shell Helps
Shell Canada Products

-----Original Message-----
From: Guillermo
Sent: November 1, 2004 6:11 PM
To: SCAN Questions, SCAN--
Subject: MMT additive

My Honda manual warms against using fuels with the MMT additive.
What is the MMT content in each of the Shell Canada fuel grades?

Thank you,
Guillermo

 

[meow77]

Good news sort of Guil... what if the "independent" study shows that there's nothing wrong with mmt... even though evidence is clear that its a carcinogen and the US doesn't use it. What then? You'll be stuck having to buy Sunoco 94

Fox... .. Sunoco is in Canada

 

[Foxpaw]

Err, yeah, so am I. I've never seen that particular brand.

However, though the evidence may seem clear that it's a carcinogen, there's always a safe threshold. For instance, any petroleum product could be considered carginogenic, as rats wading in petroleum products for their entire lifespan reliably show growth of cancer cells.

In all honesty, although exposure to abnormally high levels of manganese can be demonstrated to be harmful, whether or not burning fuel containing an additive containing manganese will have a measurable effect on the air quality (aside from the normal effects in manganese free gasoline) is harder to say definatively. It is possible that the amount of manganese released is negligible, and it's also possible that the manganese released is not going to make it into humans in any measurable quantity. (For instance, there's enough CO2 coming out of engines on a busy street to asphyxiate people on the sidewalk in no time, but the CO2 does not linger at nostril-level like that - it's equally possible that the manganese will rise harmlessly or settle out of the air before it enters a human's lungs.

Hence, although manganese is definately bad for you in large numbers, and MMT does contain manganese, they have to study to see if the logical leap between manganese in a fuel additive and impending manganese poisoning is justified.

 

[Guillermo]

All the car companies are against the use of MMT as an additive in fuel because all their internal studies have shown it reduces the lifespan of sparkplugs, oxygen sensors and catalytic converters.

If you don't care about your car, there are many other studies showing how hazardous this chemical is for people's health.

The reason Shell stopped using MMT is because they know the findings of the study will show it damages enviromental control systems in cars. So Shell wants to be ready to brag that their fuel doesn't have MMT as soon as the study is released!
Brilliant!

 

[Guillermo]

Good news for Canadians:

> Mon, Nov 1, 2004 at 8:06PM
To: [email protected]

What is the MMT content in each of the Petro Canada fuel grades?
My Honda manual warms agains using fuels with the MMT additive.

Thank you,
Guillermo.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Customer Service <[email protected]
> Fri, Nov 5, 2004 at 11:09AM
To: Guillermo

Hello,

Thank you for contacting Petro-Canada Online.
We appreciate the opportunity to respond to your concerns.
Gasoline refined by Petro-Canada does not contain MMT at any octane level.

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Regards,

Petro-Canada Online
Customer Service
1-800-668-0220
[email protected]

 

[Guillermo]

MMT again

Your Comment on 09/19/2004 at 09:32 AM
There are a couple of mixed responses you provided on the addition of MMT on Sunoco gas.
Can you clarify whether *ALL* grades of gasoline at Sunoco is MMT-free? Or is it only the Ultra 94 that is MMT-free?

***********************
Reply from Sunoco Canada web forum:
09/20/2004 at 07:59 AM

Thank you for your question. All of our grades of
Gasoline are now free of MMT

 

[meow77]

Hmm... that's great news Guillermo... but I can't help but still be a bit suspicious; I'm still not going to stop using Sunoco 94 Octane until I know for sure they will not revert to using it again. Also for long term wear and carbon build up I think 94 is best.