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Discussion Starter #1
After reading the last few posts in the Tire Talk thread about light weight wheels/tires, it made me ask myself this question... again....

At what point do you decide your ROI is diminishing?
Meaning - I'm getting X mpg now - I want to spend $1k on light weight wheels and tires to hopefully achieve X mpg.

Lets assume you get a 5mpg improvement - if you drive 15k miles a year and pay 2.50 per gallon, it'll take over 10 years to recoup the cost of these wheels and tires - at which point you would of since replaced the tires several times as well....

Thats assuming I used the calculator correctly :)
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/savemoney.jsp

And FWIW - I like customizing cars, so I get the wheels/tires thing and making my car unique etc - I'm not hating, just posing an argument/question.

I ask myself the same question when I see people installing very expensive monitoring equipment to gain that extra mpg or 2 etc.

Just asking for the sake of asking and curiosity...
 

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My opinion:
You have three groups that will respond:
Performance, Looks, Economy.
Which group are you in?

Willie
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I'm actually in all 3 - I try to be mindful of the expense of what I think I want to do and what the benefit is.

For instance - I didnt want new wheels, but thought powder coating the stockers would be a great and cheaper alternative and give my red Insight a new look.

I ended up getting the windows tinted - looks and purpose as it gets quite hot here in SC - then decided the extra $200 for powder coating was pretty pointless. It no longer needed the change of "look" and the expense just wasnt worth it.

I've invested a bit into vibration/sound dampening though because I'm in this car an hour everyday and wanted it a little more tolerable so that was worth the cost IMO.

If the sole purpose of this car wasnt fuel economy, some of these mods would make more sense to me - its hard to justify some mods given the costs vs economy gained

I remember when gas hit $5 and reading threads about people wanting to buy motorcycles to save gas - so how long do you think it'll take you to break even on that $6k motorcycle?

I try to remain somewhat logical (to me) about my decisions given the sole purpose I got this car was to save money on gas - but its hard to not want to personalize it and tinker...
 

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I agree 100%.
As you get older though your "priorities" may change.
You are finally making "cents".
I've owned my Insight for 17 years, and over 420k miles of driving do not regret any mods I have done.
Willie
 

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Let's take a pretty extreme example and say you go through a tank (10 gallons) a week, and get 50mpg (very average for an Insight). Gas is $3.50 a gallon.

If you do some mods on your car and you now get 55mpg, then you're getting 10% better fuel economy, and thus, 10% less fuel being used.

Before, you spent $35 a week in gas. Now you spend $31.5 a week (a savings of $3.50 per week).

If you spent $200 on that mod, it would take you just over a year to make up the money you spent. And that's at one tank a week! I usually get 60mpg and fill up every 3 weeks or so; it would take me nearly six years to pay off a $200 mod that netted me an additional 5mpg!

In reality, there isn't a $200 mod that could get you 5mpg unless your car has serious problems and you're replacing old parts. There's just nothing that has a good enough cost to mpg ratio that it would pay for itself in any reasonable amount of time. And if you've ever bought a new battery, well, you can say goodbye to ever hoping to make that investment back. :p

I don't drive my Insight to save money, I drive it because it's a super cool car and it gets awesome mileage (always fun to see how good of mileage I can get). I have spent lots of money on the car to improve the looks and fuel economy, but I'm never hoping to try to make that money back. I just love the car!
 

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After reading the last few posts in the Tire Talk thread about light weight wheels/tires, it made me ask myself this question... again....

At what point do you decide your ROI is diminishing?
Meaning - I'm getting X mpg now - I want to spend $1k on light weight wheels and tires to hopefully achieve X mpg.

Lets assume you get a 5mpg improvement - if you drive 15k miles a year and pay 2.50 per gallon, it'll take over 10 years to recoup the cost of these wheels and tires - at which point you would of since replaced the tires several times as well....

And FWIW - I like customizing cars, so I get the wheels/tires thing and making my car unique etc - I'm not hating, just posing an argument/question.
That discussion isn't currently about improving the gas mileage, it's about improving the looks/handling while minimizing the loss of gas mileage/acceleration. So there is no ROI aside from prettiness :).

Sam
 

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$20 on some coroplast for underneath the car and for a grill block. That's probably the economy mod with fastest ROI. Unless you only drive in city traffic.

Or you could do stuff like remove the rear wiper, which is literally free unless you factor in 10 linear inches of electrical tape to keep the water out.

Get those RE92s to 60 psi, up from 44, that'll help and cost nothing. Tire might wear out faster though?
 

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return on investment. One of the best mods that I can think of weighs about 1850 pounds. You're lucky if you've ever heard of it. You're a member if you have one . You know really actually I drive a 2000 Ford diesel truck before that I drove a Ford diesel truck before that I drove my daddy's Chevrolet diesel truck. That's 40 years of 15 miles to the gallon. And now when most people are thinking where they want to be buried. My car is a mod for a ford diesel truck. It pays for itself in one year. It's not real cool because I don't use air-conditioning. It don't ride real smooth because I have an air gauge. But when nine out of 10 of my friends drives a truck and all of them wish they had one that got better mileage . The best mod that will pay for it self quick is the Honda insight . These ford truck and Chevy trucks get between 11 miles to the gallon when you use them in the feild like a farmer and I've heard of people saying they get 20 mpg on the highway. My ford truck weighs 6600 pounds with the stuff that's in it. I try to hyper mile mileages is 15 to 18 miles per gallon. Semi truck Weighs from 30,000 pounds to over 100,000 pounds when it's loaded when I hyper mile I get 10 miles to the gallon. I can post a picture tomorrow it's at 9 1/2 miles to get now as i sleep or speak . I asked my friends where does all the diesel go. What Diesel? They say. 100,000 pounds of a truck gets 9 1/2 to 10 miles per gallon. Versus 6600 to 7000 pound truck gets 15 to 18 miles per gallon . Where does all the Diesel go in the 10 times smaller truck. Well the small trucks are geared so low The motors just wind out and waste the fuel.My conclusion American vehicles are designed to waste fuel if you look at it from my point of View .If you're an oil company our cars are designed to make them money. If you're a politician you're probably an oil company member. If you own a G1 Honda insight you shouldn't think of a hot air intake as a mod – grill blocker – under tray – Clutch switch – IMA bypass– Boat tail – lighter wheels – as mods the whole vehicle everything is a mod. Enjoy it. I gave my sister a car last week it has brighten her spirits she is smiling she is happy. She was staying home all the time too expensive to drive anywhere . I gave her a mod for her diesel truck and she's getting 90 miles to the gallon she won't let me do anything else to it . And it was my money that bought it. Again thanks to everyone who has anything to do with insight central.net. Enjoy your mod. I love the smell of aluminum in the morning adios !
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I have to agree with some of that...

When Europe has a VW turbo diesel that gets 80+ mpgs but doesnt meet CA emissions so we cant have it here - that tells me there is much more involved here than just emissions testing.....

For that matter, Subaru etc all make small 4 cyl turbo diesels that get excellent fuel economy, but over there they are taxed highly for it and over here we just cant have it.....

I got taxed for having a "hybrid" when I registered my car - An EV is a bit more.
 

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the cars made in India by Chevrolet and Ford and Honda they all get much better than they do in United States i knows what I have beentalking about . Anyway a car in America called Chevy spark will be called Chevy beat in India and lots of cars are sold in India we've never heard of and they get 90+ miles to the gallon our country doesn't love us. The reason fuel is higher in Europe they pay for your college they pay for your doctors and other things like that that's how they raise money. I mean ask Peter Perkins he's over there ask him. Over here we're just not efficient and those diesel cars that get 100 miles to the gallon they don't pollute the air. When they send a card to America and make it 40 miles per gallon it pollutes the air. Fuel with waste here serves no purpose just more money for the corrupt people in charge.
 

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Let's not lose sight of the fact that mpg in UK ratings is higher by 20% due to the use of the imperial gallon vs. U.S. gallon. Divide any UK rating by 1.2 to get the U.S. rating.

Chevy Beat and Spark are separate models and both are available in India.

Spark petrol is rated at 41.9mpg. Spark Diesel is rated at 60.0mpg (both U.S.).

Let's check our "facts" before we make assumptions.
 

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I was saying Chevrolet has a diesel car in India you can't get here Honda has a diesel car in India you can't get here because they don't waste enough fuel. The Aptera was not allowed to go into business here. The Elio not allowed to go in business in America does not waste Enough fuel. Volkswagen xl one 260 miles to the gallon diesel car. And in America you think you're doing good if you get 40. And I have discovered if you double your air pressure in your tires just about double your mileage . I still think in my opinion our government wants us to waste as much fuel as possible. Or we would have 100 psi car tires. And the Honda insight would be re-introduced. With better tires because I get 150 mph highway. And I try and be honest if I live 10 miles more north I would be getting 90 miles per gallon highway. Where I happen to live 10 miles to work and back home 150 miles to the gallon. That's using hyper mile techniques. And no assist use electric clutch switch. My sisters red car gets 90 miles to the gallon highway. She's got the wrong size tires. does not have under trayno hot air intake. No grill block and she won't let me do it for her. She also has a bad O2 sensor but it's still better than a Bosch. That's another thing in America the ntk O2 sensor is twice as fuel efficient as the bosch
I tested both. People who don't give a darn or know no better will lose money using replacement parts that are inferior . And that is allowed in America inferior replacement parts.there's patriotic folks who love America and believe in America. And that's how our politicians take advantage of us. The Aptera should have been made available until it Caught On you know like beer, or cigarettes, or gambling casinos, or strip clubs, or triple X theaters, it's unbelievable we have those and not a good fuel efficient vehicle. One last thing the Cvt insight Is inferior to the manual an no leanburn . Another Way, America gets us so you buy the Honda CRZ The manual has a lower range rear end to waste gas. TheyCVT has a higher range rear end to make it look like to uneducated Joe public that the CVT transmission is a good deal. And most cars at Ford and Chevy do the same thing.
 

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That's correct is there any instance where a car in America gets better mileage than anywhere else on the planet. Challenge
 

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You might find some exceptions in Russia. Or, perhaps in some wealthy oil-rich countries in the middle east. I think overall it comes down to that Americans have more average wealth and cheaper gasoline. We get different options.

The absolute savings of a $200 mod would be different if we paid Europe's more typical $7 per gallon.
 

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Mr. Ecky The other day you said radiator temperature has influence onthe performance of the car when the motor is cold and it's warming up. I agree do you think there would be a way to fool the temperature sending unit to make the program stay in warm mode longer and also increase miles per hour to 50 mph instead of 30 like a get.I got I got 97 miles per gallon on cold start today until the motor warmed up what do you think your way over my head On stuff like this but I'm trying to catch up with much respect
 

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I'm really happy with my overall roi, and thats why we do this. I bought my insight for $1000 after selling my CRV which got less than 22 mpg combined. I figure with gas as high as it is, I'll have 100% return within the year. Mods are worth it for the fun, that's how I see it.
 

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Thank you for pointing out ROI and with tires in particular. I replaced the 13" bicycle wheels on a Datsun years ago with 185/65R14s and it rode much better and hugged corners like crazy.

I saw this tire size mentioned in the forum as an option (https://www.insightcentral.net/forums/modifications-technical-issues/8129-smoother-ride.html) and have been considering moving toward inexpensive versions of these. If the penalty is 5%, the price difference should cover the reduction in mileage - very similar total cost + improvement in ride. Hmmm....
 

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Mr. Ecky The other day you said radiator temperature has influence onthe performance of the car when the motor is cold and it's warming up. I agree do you think there would be a way to fool the temperature sending unit to make the program stay in warm mode longer and also increase miles per hour to 50 mph instead of 30 like a get.I got I got 97 miles per gallon on cold start today until the motor warmed up what do you think your way over my head On stuff like this but I'm trying to catch up with much respect
I think you could do it. The coolant temperature sensor is probably just a variable resistor. You would likely want to use a multimeter to measure its resistance when the engine is both warm and cold, and then set up a small switch that lets you select between the real temperature sensor, and a simple resistor that bypasses the real sensor and tricks the computer into thinking the coolant is fully warm.

 

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Which has the greater effect on the engine performance and thus fuel economy: the output of the coolant temperature sensor or the intake air temperature sensor?
 
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