[Kevin Dougherty]

Hi gang,

This seems like the spot to post about my recent problems.
About six week ago my 2000 5 speed with about 78k miles on the clock started to have problems with intermitant low or no IMA recharge or assist. No idiot lights at this time.

I start by looking for the obvious ...and did an MCM reset by pulling the battery ground for a minute. This seemed to loosen up the state of charge gage that seemed to be stuck at about mid charge, but did nothing for the intermitant low / no charge or assist.

The following weeks saw the problem getting worse until finally when starting on a hill, the engine would stall or ocasionally the BRAKE idiot light and the 12v. battery icon would fire up and stay on together for no reason.

I took it to the dealer and they found about a half dozen codes including electric power steering faults. At no time did the IMA light fire up. They reset the codes.

On the fourth go-around with the dealer, they finally got hold of Honda tech support, who recomended replacing the IMA battery only. I told them that this was not satisfactory, and the service updates include BCM & MCM units which I want replaced.

The car is now sitting on the dealers lot with 79,XXX miles and oh, by the way, Honda cancelled ALL of my warrenties backdated effective Jan. 2006 without notice, because when I moved from North Carolina to Pennsylvania and retitled the car, the notary service accidentally coded my clean title as a flood title...SIGH! Since corrected, with PA., but not Honda or the dealer.

I told the dealer to order the parts (IMA bat. MCM & BCM), and I will pay for them and sue Honda. The Dealer quoted $3,500 for battery alone.

Would someone please post or point me to the 8 year, 80,000 mile IMA warranty. My owners manual got lost in the move.

Thanks

 

[goat961]

The Dealer quoted $3,500 for battery alone.
Thanks

sorry to not be of help, i've just wanted to mention this somewhere for like the last month.

10% over dealer cost of battery packs is $2,500... which is what honda employees can get it for. that doesn't include labor or taxes or anything either so most dealer prices are'nt all that unreasonable most of the time.

also, the bcm and mcm is costs an empoyees $500 and $1,500.... so the parts cost to replace everything is slightly less than $4,500... out f the dealers pocket.

not saying that you should have to pay for it or anything... i've just been meaning to put that out there.

 

[Kevin Dougherty]

Not really sure if the $3,500 included labor. Moot point really.

 

[fklentz]

I just got a letter from Honda stating that my 2000 insight IMA system is now waranteed 10 years and 150K miles and that I need to bring it in to have the BCM and MCM replaced.

 

[Resist]

Actually the letters states, "Depending on what is needed, the dealer will replace one or two control modules in your vehicles IMA system."

 

[Kevin Dougherty]

New quote from the dealer to replace the whole package; IMA BAT, BCM, & MCM....not to exceede $5,500.

I gave them the ok, on my dime, and told them that they, Honda America, the notary, my lawer and the judge will work it out.

Would someone please post or point me to the 8 year, 80,000 mile IMA warranty. My owners manual got lost in the move.

BTW Honda quotes a flat rate of 0.8 hour to replace all of the above. The dealer is charging $500+ for "trouble shooting". The core charge for the battery is $3,000 per the Honda service instructions.

 

[Willie Williford]

batt, replacement

Kevin,
Don't know where you got the flat rate.
Per my information.....2 hours,
2.5 with road testing a lot...

Willie

 

[Kevin Dougherty]

Don't know where you got the flat rate.
Per my information.....2 hours,
2.5 with road testing a lot...

It came off of the IMA install service bulletin Willie

 

[Willie Williford]

battery

Thanks Kevin for the reply. Then the flat rate manual is wrong from when I had my IMA battery, ECM, and BCM etc replaced.
Also just got my letter about the recal and extended warranty.
84,000 miles "after" my IMA battery was replaced under warranty.

I'll have the Honda dealer check to make sure I have the "latest" controllers.

Willie

 

[Insightful Trekker]

The car is now sitting on the dealers lot with 79,XXX miles and oh, by the way, Honda cancelled ALL of my warrenties backdated effective Jan. 2006 without notice, because when I moved from North Carolina to Pennsylvania and retitled the car, the notary service accidentally coded my clean title as a flood title...SIGH! Since corrected, with PA., but not Honda or the dealer.

I gave them the ok, on my dime, and told them that they, Honda America, the notary, my lawer and the judge will work it out.

Not sure what all the rush is about Kevin. Yes it reads like your in final "Jeopardy" of total electrical system shutdown with the IMA in such an advanced state of failure. But unless your a recent law school graduate and are simply itching for your first case I'd slow down a bit.

Find out just what Honda will accept as a correction for your situation. AFAIK there is no "law" that requires your notification so you have no cause there.

And in all this rush the $500 for "testing" is _exorbitant_ :!: Slow down a bit. Save yourself some money and grief :!:

Sincerely,

 

[Kevin Dougherty]

Willie,
I think the .8 hour flat rate is just whipping the dealer a little harder to save Honda Inc. some money. I agree that 2.5 hr is a lot more realistic.


John,
Would you happen to have a scan or link of the 8 year 80k mile IMA warrenty?

AFAIK there is no "law" that requires your notification so you have no cause there.

I guess that there is no required notification to breech a warranty contract.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Well Kevin,

Its obvious your still very upset and understandably so. But remember this is not a forum of legal discussions and any legal advice not offered by an attorney licensed to practice in the state in question is usually "illegal" advice.

AFAIK all Honda dealers are required by law to have available for inspection all warranties on the products they sell. I'm not sure if this also includes older products an or how far in the past they may be required to have them on hand. Also Honda customer relations will be able to make one available to you. If your dead serious in continuing on this road to a wreck then make your request in writing, certified, return receipt requested.

The specifics as to the warranty are clear and plain. Your covered unless you own or purchased a "totaled" vehicle. Flood damage is usually considered totaled. There are also other potential warranty nullification issues I won't even try to cover here since they apparently do not apply to your case. How such must be ameliorated under the law varies from state to state.

You "cause" is clearly with the person who incorrectly coded your title. As a state employee their probably immune from prosecution unless you can show the action was deliberate. Chill out. Call Honda customer relations, make an appointment with the regional Honda rep to inspect your car so he can verify the mis coding of your title. Then all your troubles will be behind you.

Sincerely,

 

[Kevin Dougherty]

Total cost to me... $6,064.49 out the door.

Honda supplied warranty care after 4 troubleshooting trips to the dealer and numerous calls to the Honda care line over the past several weeks...$zero.

Link to the 2000 Insight warranty

 

[Kevin Dougherty]

Honda settled today for $7,100. The excess money is for interest and court costs. I have spent more than that in actual costs for this warranty claim.
Now they want me to fill out an IRS form W-9, request for taxpayer identification number. I guess they want me to pay income tax on the warranty claim. Their lawyer says that its a 'precondition' although he never mentioned it before or during the court hearing.
I guess Honda is mad at me because I had the Pa Attorney General inquire why Honda only initially covered nine southern states and not Pa.
BTW Carfax still lists it as a flood damaged vehicle.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Glad to hear you got it covered Kevin :!:

Although I am sorry that the "normal" channels that I suggested above were of no help.

But if taxes were not a precondition in the settlement then I'd dig my heels in deeper. Depending on your tax bracket the sum could still be a minor bundle. Although AFAIK such a "benefit" shoud not be taxable in any case. Maybe a quick (lower cost than an attorney) question session with an accountant will clear it up.

HTH!