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I don't believe Honda has made public any official figures. I suppose they shall be forthcoming with the production car's debut at the Detroit Auto Show. Unofficially, it's rumored that the mpg figures are the same as the Civic Hybrid, a few mpg short of the current Prius. I'd be disappointed if this were the case. :(
 

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I think there are two things that are holding the economy down into the 50 mpg range. First, you have to design your car so it does well on the EPA tests. Second, you have to design it so it is drivable in today's (crazy) driving conditions. That means you need enough power to go 75 mph uphill when fully loaded, enough to accelerate onto the freeway ahead of the giant pickup truck pulling a huge horse trailer, and enough to out-drag the hot rod WRXs and EVOs at the stop light.

I bet that we don't see a 75 mpg five passenger car until we get a sensible national speed limit of 55 mph or so...
 

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Dougie said:
I bet that we don't see a 75 mpg five passenger car until we get a sensible national speed limit of 55 mph or so...
a national speed limit of 55 mph isnt going to slow anyone down...theres a growing number of drivers who NEVER saw the speed limit at 55 when it was(i only barely remember it when i was younger)...so even if the national speed limit is dropped to 55...its only going to increase speeding fines...no ones going to slow down...and everyones still going to want just as powerful a car...the sad truth :(
 

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ikhoudvanu199 said:
a national speed limit of 55 mph isnt going to slow anyone down...theres a growing number of drivers who NEVER saw the speed limit at 55 when it was(i only barely remember it when i was younger)...so even if the national speed limit is dropped to 55...its only going to increase speeding fines...no ones going to slow down...and everyones still going to want just as powerful a car...the sad truth :(
except we don't have to rely on speed law enforcement or the citizens being law abiding...

most new vehicles already have computer controlled speed limits put on them...

It would not cost $1 more to just change that computer controlled speed limit to 55 MPH when the car is built ... and then you have to either hack the CAN code, or hack the speed sensor ... both of which are doable ... but well beyond the abilities of 90% of the population... thus the national speed limit is enforced by not giving you the choice to do anything but comply.

You just have emergency vehicles like Police, Ambulance, and Fire allowed legally to have the speed limits changed... for everyone else its a crime...

Speeding problem solved.
 

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I watched a video on YouTube from the Paris auto show. The commentator said it would get about the same mileage as the Civic Hybrid. I'm hoping the CR-Z gets our Insight type mileage.
 

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IamIan said:
ikhoudvanu199 said:
a national speed limit of 55 mph isnt going to slow anyone down...theres a growing number of drivers who NEVER saw the speed limit at 55 when it was(i only barely remember it when i was younger)...so even if the national speed limit is dropped to 55...its only going to increase speeding fines...no ones going to slow down...and everyones still going to want just as powerful a car...the sad truth :(
except we don't have to rely on speed law enforcement or the citizens being law abiding...

most new vehicles already have computer controlled speed limits put on them...

It would not cost $1 more to just change that computer controlled speed limit to 55 MPH when the car is built ... and then you have to either hack the CAN code, or hack the speed sensor ... both of which are doable ... but well beyond the abilities of 90% of the population... thus the national speed limit is enforced by not giving you the choice to do anything but comply.

You just have emergency vehicles like Police, Ambulance, and Fire allowed legally to have the speed limits changed... for everyone else its a crime...

Speeding problem solved.
That's what I never understood. If the speed limit is 55 or 75, why do they build cars with 200, 300, 400 horsepower that can go crazy fast? Even our little 67 horsepower Insight has a top speed of 113mph. Why do they build cars that can go three or four times the speed limit? If we are in an oil crisis, why are we building cars that get lousy mileage? Build the cars so the top speed is maybe 10mph faster than the top speed limit.
 

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bfivelover said:
That's what I never understood. If the speed limit is 55 or 75, why do they build cars with 200, 300, 400 horsepower that can go crazy fast? Even our little 67 horsepower Insight has a top speed of 113mph. Why do they build cars that can go three or four times the speed limit? If we are in an oil crisis, why are we building cars that get lousy mileage? Build the cars so the top speed is maybe 10mph faster than the top speed limit.
I bet it is 2 major pieces...

#1> People love to feel / have available to them that acceleration off the line from a dead stop going up a steep hill... and that takes allot of power.... or still have the quick acceleration at 50+ MPH highway speed going up a steep hill to zoom past someone.

#2> People like knowing they can go 150MPH if they want to ... even if it is illegal , dangerous, stupid , etc... they still like knowing they can.

---

So we have put the entertainment value of dangerous and illegal driving as a higher priority than enforcing speed and safe driving laws and or trying to converse fuel.
 

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bfivelover said:
That's what I never understood. If the speed limit is 55 or 75, why do they build cars with 200, 300, 400 horsepower that can go crazy fast? Even our little 67 horsepower Insight has a top speed of 113mph. Why do they build cars that can go three or four times the speed limit? If we are in an oil crisis, why are we building cars that get lousy mileage? Build the cars so the top speed is maybe 10mph faster than the top speed limit.
Some people enjoy high horsepower cars. I agree that most people don't need a car like that (does anyone really need that much power?), but then again most people don't need a lot of the things they have. I'm willing to bet that very few people have really ever floored their car for more then a second or so, so much of that extra HP is wasted anyway.
 

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One thing not mentioned in the above answers is the size and weight of the vehicles in question. Build them bigger and heavier with lots of rolling resistance and lousy aerodynamics and the horsepower is needed to obtain the same speeds as our Insights,Same goes for acceleration.
Of course this is the end result of what everyone else has said.....the desires instilled into the buyer by media and manufacturers of the type vehicle they need is the root cause.
Some of the problem is down to men's need to forever prove themselve's (Ego ) by desiring a fast powerful noisey car of attractive shape or the latest preferably of military origin, macho monster vehicle.
Our whole motoring culture seems to be based mostly on ego fulfilment rather than sensible transport requirements.

DGate
 

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Another question about the new Insight is the mechanical geometry of the drivetrain mounting points. Honda engine/transmission swapping is a big-time business, and with at least three hybrid drivetrains out there now (Insight, Civic, Insight) there are endless possibilities. For example: Insight I engine/tranny in Insight II body... :D
 

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Dougie said:
For example: Insight I engine/tranny in Insight II body... :D
Possible, yes. But unfortunately as it also becomes more "high tech" the IMA assist algorithm and HP curves of the engine become more narrowly tuned for each model. i.e. aero drag and weight. Makeing a swap potentally less desirable.
 

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Yes, a challenge to the tuning community. Surely the IMA control system is similar to the fuel injection control system, with default maps that can be changed. As the number of hybrids out there increases, at some point (maybe when gas gets to $10 a gallon) somebody will come up with more invasive hacks to the system than have been seen so far...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_tuning
 

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If you've been following PeterPerkins Phev Insight Li conversion thread its not going to be without its challanges.

And much different than the traditional conversions in that its an electrical "problem", not mechanical. You can't simply convert an MCM or BCM to a different program.

But yes given sufficient control systems knowledge end experience someone with EE background can do it.
 
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