[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

I was trying out driving slow on the highway yesterday.
I was cruising in the slow lane at about 45-55 MPH, and I kept noticing the cars behind me would come up behind me at 65+MPH, slow down, tailgate for a minute or two, then once they saw that I was not going to speed up, finally would speed up and pass me. I felt justified as I was driving efficiently, and they were not, but after a few of these, I thought. What did my causing them to slow down then speed up do to their MPG, as bad as it was before, I made it worse. Looking at the big picture, did I save any gas for the future, or did I instead cause the other cars to waste more than I saved by my driving syle?
Any thoughts on this?

 

[Guillermo]

Bingo!
Interupting the natural flow of traffic increases fuel consumption for everyone else, increases the number of lane changes and therefore greatly increases the chance of a colllision.

Driving slow is only safer when everyone else is driving the same speed as well :idea:

 

[bfivelover]

You are not responsible for the poor gas wasting driving habits of others. Unless there were other vehicles in the passing lane so they couldn't pass, they made the decision to tailgate you. Maybe next time they will pass rather than tailgate and try to force you to go faster. This happens to me on a daily basis, even when I am going the speed limit or faster. There are always going to be people driving faster or slower than you no matter the speed limit. These people are going to tailgate and try to intimidate you(or maybe they are just stupid) no matter how fast or slow you are going. I have to slow down well below the speed limit to get them to pass me, and sometimes no matter how slow I go they won't pass. A few weeks ago I had an idiot tailgating me a little above the speed limit when a deer appeared in the road. I slammed on the brakes and I don't know how the guy didn't slam into me. Other people are going to do what they do no matter what you do, so keep on saving gas.

 

[tuna1]

What is the posted speed?

What is the posted speed and what were road condition,while on your drive?Most dirvers are like lemings,they move in mass with no though process going on about the conditions surounding them.Let them go by:driving like Hell-they will only get there sooner!

 

[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

I guess saying I am not responsible is a relitive thing, If I am going 65 in a 65 zone, where everyone else is going 75, no one should have a problem.
Same road same average speed, now I am going 50-55, now I should take some responsibility for any disruptions in traffic flow, and the resultant total increase in fuel consumed by all cars. The amount of gallons of gas that I save in my car that would get only 70MPG at 65-70with the flow, now gets 90-100 MPG, but also causing a ripple effect in the total gas consumption for cars traveling that road at that time. I suspect that the ripple on a busy road could account for many many times what we personally are saving. The mpg contest should be about going with the flow at maximum mpg, not just the big number. I have to wonder what a hard core P&G driver would cost in real gallons of fuel wasted if someone were ( fill in your own ) enough to actually try it on a busy road????
8) :wink:

 

[tubesguy]

Couldn't agree more, Mike. I never, in a open road situtation with any traffic, intentionally drive any slower than maybe 1 or 2 mph slower than the posted limit. I'm usually a little above. I know that may knock my mileage down a bit, but I think there's something of a social contract involved - if I use a four or six lane highway posted at 65, I'm going to drive somewhere around that speed, rather than making folks slow down for me. (Unless, of course, I'm in a hurry.) ;-)

I also think that trundling along in the right lane at ten mph slower than the speed limit might give folks a bad impression of Insights and hybrids in general.

As always, YMMV - Pat

 

[Calpod]

I don't drive at the speed limit, I drive with the flow of traffic, if the traffic is doing 75 then I'll drive 75, but if there is traffic in the right lane going slower, I'll just follow behind, I usually do it with trucks, as they keep a constant speed, When there is no traffic at all in the morning, I drive by the mpg display, I'll keep it at over 100 and with MIMA's help.

Take away the trucks and I'll be going a lot faster.

I don't usually have people tailgate me, I'll just change lanes and let them pass.

 

[Dougie]

Nah. The speed limit is supposed to be the absolute upper limit in good weather, daytime, low traffic volume, etc. Some highways have limits of 65 MPH with a minimum of 45 or something like that. I don't feel bad driving 50 on a 65 MPH highway.

It is risky from the viewpoint of getting crashed into by some dope yakking on a cell phone, but I feel no obligation to drive at the speed limit.

 

[jbrasure]

I tend to do what Calpod described. I drive around 75 until I get behind a slow truck or car. Then I just hang out behind them. That way I get good mileage, and I don't slow anybody down who wouldn't be slowed down already.

 

[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

It will always of course be up to each of us to decide if we are using our tool for great milage (Insight) to the best advantage to save fuel for the future, because that was the reason we bought a hybrid. Right?
Think back to when you were driving your last non hybrid car, and you were cruising down the highway, and some slow poke was going 10 MPH below the speed limit, what did we think?
I remember first looking at the car, if it was a geo metro,or some other small car, I would have thought that the car coulden't go any faster, if it was a big car, I would look at the driver, and wonder if he had been drinking or was real old.
Well guess what! Those are the things they think about us, when they have to waste gas to slow down for us.
Now the guy does not buy a hybrid, tells his friends about the slowpoke hybrid that slows down the morning commute, and when the need a new car arises, a hybrid will not be considered.
What was the big picture effect of my driving slow on the gas supply. More gas burnt than if they had followed me right up those hils without any need to slow down at all, and had been left with the impression that hybrids are really fast and efficient cars. At some point we need to realize that until hybrid cars are widely accepted for the improvement that they are, and become the car of choice, we are the example for all of the cars we drive with, so to truly save as much gas as possible, we should be showing that hybrid driving can go with the flow, cause that's what most everyone wants from a car, not an underpowered expensive little car that gets crazy gas milage, but causes many others to use more.
I don't know the answer.
When the traffic is light, and the conditions right, we can drive any way we want, but that is a rare commute for most people, and commuting is where the bulk of the gas is burnt each day.
Maybe we need to start hyper miler caravans, where the rest of the cars get behind us at safe distance, and we all drive at the efficient speed, and they follow us to get their best milage as well.
The rear hatch would be a great place for a sign
DRIVE SLOW, SAVE GAS, FOLLOW ME FOR BEST MILEAGE. :wink:

 

[b1shmu63]

When I pass someone, which is rare, I do it with authority. If I'm being followed I generally will travel at the speed limit or slightly above, depending on road conditions. The speed limit is just that. Anyone traveling faster can be ticketed. In practice almost everyone would get tickets all the time! During the fist oil crisis many lives were saved when the speed limit was lowered. Speeders think they are saving time. A serious accident can cost millions in health costs. A fatal accident is generally cheaper for the public but obviously defeats the purpose of saving time. The urge to save time may be driven by overwork, bad organization, or a distorted self image. In most cases I suspect the speeder will waste the time saved doing something else of little consequence later.

I have little sympathy for those who try to bully others into driving illegally by tailgating. I make no apology for driving "the limit".

On one occasion I had to push the envelope to make a medical appointment. I try to visualize others who are driving aggressively as having similar reasons. There certainly seem to be many people with medical appointments around here!

Sorry for the rant, but I got passed today (doing the limit) by some crazy arse who probably scared the pants off an oncoming motorist. I wound up sitting behind him at the first light at the edge of town. :roll:

 

[bpapa9013]

Safety issues aside...screw the yahoos.

In traffic I try to stay within 10mph of the limit, I only yeild to the herd in very heavy traffic (but then everyone is probably already going the speed I want anyway! )

I often drive from KC back to Lawrence (a college town where I live about 30min away from KC) very late at night after partying with friends (not drunk, I actually don't drink...). And there is NO traffic at all, so I go b/w 50 and 65 most of the time, the speed limit is posted at 70mph. And I dunno if they are drunks or just stupid rich kids or what, but on any given night at least a dozen times, some brand new H2 or Navigator or Mustang or Acura or something will BLAST past me at well over 100mph. This stretch of highway is known for stupid people getting themselves killed. So screw the yahoos, if they hit me it doesn't matter how fast I'm going they would have caught me eventually anyway.

 

[tuna1]

Speed Limit Vs Road Speed-ALL should Slow Down!!!!!!

I agree with Dougie,the posted speed is the maximum-under the best conditions.Some states also post the minimum permited speed,that's should be done nation wide.

Looking at the Very Big Picture,as a nation,if we don't come to terms with our energy use and all the money that is going into the Gulf States(middle east) we won't be a independent nation like we our.

Instead we will be held Dependant on the whims of the leaders in control of the gulf oil(WHO ARE NOT OUR FRIENDS).

ALL of Us - must reduce our oil consumtion and dependence on oil as a energy source,so we can gain control of where we are going as a nation - Independent,Not Dependent on Gulf States oil and the problems that go along with it.

All of us - SLOW DOWN -stop being part of the rat race, thumb your nose at Middle East Oil.Become independent of the group traveling at 80 MPH and think on your own and demand we as a nation develop a respondsible energy policy to save our Nation ! I would drive a Hydrogen powered Hybrid auto today if availiable.

 

[Dougie]

I was thinking about getting a "55 saves gas" sticker to put on the back window... but it might provoke the SUV drivers even more. :lol:

 

[james]

"...55 saves gas..."

Not only might it provoke them, it's not exactly true We all should realize by now that going 85 in an Insight uses a lot less fuel than going 55 in an SUV. So what saves more, getting SUV drivers to go slower, or getting them to trade in the SUVs for Insights that they can drive as fast as they please?

Quite aside from that, what's magic about 55? Wouldn't going 45 save even more? How about 35? Anyone for 25? 15?

Then there's the whole issue of driving for economy. I've never been able to understand the reasoning process of the average driver. Like the people who, when approaching a red light, step on the gas so they can cut in front of me and slam on their brakes. Or the 10-mile or so stretch of freeway I drive frequently. At the south end, where I start, I'll be doing 65 or so in the right lane, and most people will be passing me. At the north end, I'll be doing the same 65 (if I'm lucky) in the left lane, and passing most of the cars that passed me.

 

[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

Some people do not equate their driving style to MPG, they just drive as they please and bit** about the price of gas.:roll:

A nationwide driver efficieny training class would help. Maybe a HBO or CNN special series on how to get the most out of your gas dollar?
Something needs to be done, and as Insight drivers, we are in a unique position to show by example how it is done.
Turning off other drivers by driving too slow not be the best way.
If we had a rear MPG display that showed what we were getting for mileage, it may be all that would be necessary. people would then connect driving style with the milage in the rear hatch, and may get in the hybrid caravan to get better milage. I may have to dig out my tiny video camera, and rear LCD display.
:wink:

 

[Kobushi]

What's magic about ~55mph is aerodynamics.

Air resistance increases exponentially... at 1mph it's not worth thinking about... it isn't until around 50-55 that it starts to become a significant load on the engine.

As for fuel efficiency, when I first got my Insight I deivered pizzas(though I don't anymore); My purpose for having an Insight WAS, and IS, to get the best possible gas milage that I can get without sacrificing saftey, practicality, or punctuality.

If my only goal was to use as little fuel as I could, I'd just get a bicycle. (Or maybe a moped).

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Air resistance increases exponentially... at 1mph it's not worth thinking about... it isn't until around 50-55 that it starts to become a significant load on the engine.

Close.

Do the math. above 40 MPH is when the aero factors become significant in relation to drag. (and MPG)

HTH!

 

[james]

It's true that air resistance increases with speed, though if I remember my aerodynamics it's v^3, not e^v. (And excuse me for not knowing how to do exponents in HTML.)

But when you say it's not important below 55 mph (or 40 mph or whatever) why not? It's the main reason I can't get much over 30 mph on my bike (on level ground), and am pushing it to maintain more than about 16-18 mph over a long stretch. So obviously there's energy-savings potential there: how much food could we save by imposing a 15 mph bike speed limit?

 

[sfambro]

Slowing down even a little bit helps.
http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section ... uthorid=50