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Discussion Starter #1
I got my injector shop friend to find a newer designed multihole injector for our cars. He needs a set for evaluation and to see what machining needs to be done so they fit (and plugs for electric harness matching, etc.
Anyone lend me a set for a month or so? or sell? I will offer a credit or discount on your set for assistance.
Thanks!
Tommy
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Injectors needed (still)

Ok, good to know, however, there are tweaks available (extrudehoning for one) Injector experts may be able to get them staying in LB even longer/easier. There are some issues with some, at least mine, related to cat fouling, as my cat completely failed from soot fouling (beyong hard running cleaning it) had to be removed/replaced. It wasn't oil fouling (I checked), so fueling issues must have been at least partially responsible, IMHO.

Its not just multi hopes that make them atomize optimally. Spray pattern and consistency between sets is also very important and contributory to max efficiency. As no one else is doing this at this point, I want to investigate it as part of a few things I learned in yrs of chasing efficiency in Airplane engines (with very good success).

SO, offer is there still.
I want to buy a set or borrow a set for investigation of possibilities to improve spray patterns and efficiency.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Injectors needed (still)

Ok, good to know, however, there are tweaks available (extrudehoning for one) Injector experts may be able to get them staying in LB even longer/easier. There are some issues with some, at least mine, related to cat fouling, as my cat completely failed from soot fouling (beyong hard running cleaning it) had to be removed/replaced. It wasn't oil fouling (I checked), so fueling issues must have been at least partially responsible, IMHO.

Its not just multi hopes that make them atomize optimally. Spray pattern and consistency between sets is also very important and contributory to max efficiency. As no one else is doing this at this point, I want to investigate it as part of a few things I learned in yrs of chasing efficiency in Airplane engines (with very good success).

SO, offer is there still.
I want to buy a set or borrow a set for investigation of possibilities to improve spray patterns and efficiency.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks everyone for ypur info and help!

ASAP I get the specs and other info I'll post up on a new thread. All input re specs etc is much appreciated. My guy thinks he can machine the new Bosch units to fit. They have the latest in manufacturing advances and much better atomization than past designs. (supposedly) We will test and see, of course;)!

Hopefully cost is not too bad. As more cars are wrecked there will be a lower cost market of them available rebuilt and matched, hopefully soon.
I'm trying to find out what they come in as standard eqpt for sourcing from pull a part etc.
 

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I did some research about our injectors some time ago when installing a turbo. Our Injectors are top feed Denso Part# 195500-3840 and Flow about 140cc/min at 43.5 psi (3bar). The physical size of our injectors is nothing special, a lot of other cars use similar denso injectors with the same shape and plug, but different flow rates. From outside they look exactly the same, and even have similar high Z, but just the flow rates are different.

You can use these websites to find data about various injectors and try to cross reference using google to find a car which uses ones that have the same or close flow rate as Insight Injectors:
Denso fuel injectors, top feed and side feed, connectors, flow
WitchHunter Performance - Injector Cleaning & Flow Testing Services (go to Denso Top Feed section)

If you install higher flow rate injectors, the car will still mange, but only upto a certain point because the car cant adjust fuel trims that much. And ofcourse the MPG reading will be wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
02 Insight

AND burn more fuel all the time, so maybe not inaccurate with waste considered...guess it depends on how much more flow injectors some idiot would install (unless he turboed or other FI), and chose to fit that fuel (un)need.

Only an IDIOT would put higher flow injectors in a NA engine w/o LARGE airflow increases! from some source! Cams in BMW M3's use 22cc/min vs 19 cc/min for example..NOT much difference there, and BMW knows efficiency needs injectors running as close to capacity as possible, for best spray patterns and therefore mpg/efficiency. People add bigger cams to e36 M3 all the time using stock injectors, without issue, much less 22 cc./min needed.

So, obviously, the flow rate is the "devil in the details", or reason I can't order from JC WHITNEY, or rather Summit!!, JC Whitney is not good stuff!
I have a friend who makes custom injector housings (where the holes are). He tells me that holes are rough as hell on all injectors, and just streamlining the holes increases atomization a LOT. What a LOT is, is TBD. But, I am on it:),
and will report ASAP I get a response I can VERIFY:).
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Injectors here, NOT as pictured in O2's post!

Our injectors are 5 hole multi's, and os picture were 12 hole, current state of the art (to my knowledge). The 2015 Fit has the same cc per cylinder as ours (essentially), so they will be soa and more efficient. There may be some motorcycle injectors even better, however, available. We shall see, and I will get and report back.
 

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You have to realize, back when injectors were first used most of them were sing pindel mode. (1 hole).Then in 2000 the Insight had 8. My 2007 Fit does have 12. You need a magnifying glass to see them.
I would like to see what a "DI" injector looks like.

Willie
 

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Injectors for Diesel Fuel VS Gas are totally different.
Don't know about DI gas ones.

Willie
 

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Bosch DI gas injector:

 

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Thanks ELI.
That makes since. No atiomatization (sp) needed.

Willie
 

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Discussion Starter #18
So the insights were 8 hole from the get go? (Willie)

These are 5 hole. I'll check with vendor and see what yr insight etc they were pulled off of. My car is a 2000 model. The more holes, other things equal of course, the better atomization and complete(r) burn should ocour. (and ability to access/stay in a bit longer lean burn)..

Ifter rechecking my ceramic coating info, I verified its still about what was available back in the late 1990's (google ceramic coating engine combustion chambers) approx. 7% peak power, but much better low end tq to midrange, EXACTLY where LB is accessed. Kinda excited to get back to this, and it will be interesting to see how much better LB works! it may only be the 7%, but it could be more..I was seeing 20+% minimum on 2 strokes leaning them to suggested egt's and cht's (NOT exceeding any factory suggested operating parameters).
 

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Our injectors are 5 hole multi's, and os picture were 12 hole, current state of the art (to my knowledge). The 2015 Fit has the same cc per cylinder as ours (essentially), so they will be soa and more efficient. There may be some motorcycle injectors even better, however, available. We shall see, and I will get and report back.
You are correct, our injectors our Five hole. I found that picture online when I searched for honda insight injectors, must be a stock picture or something, but physically the body of the injector looks exactly the same.

The CVT Insights have a different part# for the injector, I wonder if they have a different number of holes. The CVT is more strict on emissions and also has a return-less fuel system. The 2000-2006 MT Insights have the same part# injector throughout.

Here is a picture of an injector from my car (02 MT Insight)
 

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Sorry guys, 02I is right, they are 5 hole. My mistake

(Time to get a new eyeglass prescription)

Willie
 
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