My 150,000km Insight Review

Getshocked.ca · Oct 9, 2005

Here are some of the perks I have enjoyed with mine

Random complete loss of the Integrated Motor Assist engine (Battery power)
Honda's consistent inability to properly diagnose my Honda hybrid's problems without a "Check Engine Light", this has lead to even MORE damage, as well as possibly putting my life at risk.
I just replaced another high tech catalytic converter, This is now the third one within 150,000km. Because of the complexity of this Honda hybrid there isn't any other options then to purchase the parts through Honda, at approximately $2000, can Honda honestly expect the customer to replace one every 60,000km ?
Long waiting periods for almost every part I have ever needed for my Honda hybrid, which in turn has caused weeks, if not months of vehicle downtime
At 150,000km I have a lifetime MPG of only 42.3 MPG, a large contrast from Honda's initially advertised 68 MPG.
Strange, electric noises randomly coming from the IMA Battery Compartment
Water damaged $300+ speakers, carpet rot and interior rust probably due to a chronic drivers side window leak that they cant seem to permanently fix

and the list goes on

Insightful Trekker · Oct 9, 2005

Hi again Stephen. And again sorry to read about your unhappy (and unusual) Insight experiences.

After reviewing much of your posting history to try and find a reason for all your difficulties the one that stands out is your choice of driving habits:

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... 87&start=0
"i have a feeling people aren't exercising there batteries enough, I drive my insight hard, and i play my 1300 watt stereo Loud"

And:

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... 13&start=0
"I do Drive the car hard, i make no claims to the contrary."

The Insight was never designed to be a "normal" car. Many parts use lightweight materials that when driven "hard" will _not_ be as durable as their heavyweight counterparts.

The clearest reflection of your driving habits and how there not in line with the Insights design _concepts_ (high MPG potential, "easy" driving) is your L MPG:

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... 38&start=0

Aaron Cake said:
Since your lifetime mileage is only 50MPG, I can't imagine that you ever spend time in lean burn, ... <snip>
(and how can someone manage to get only 50 MPG in an Insight?!?! I take my car on RX-7 "rallies" all the time, and still manage to get ~65 MPG)

Sorry too that you didn't take your own advice and trade earlier this year:

Sick and Tired of this car
http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... 32&start=0

It _appears_ that you have proven that the Insight will not be as durable as some other cars and/or Honda models when driven hard. A rather expensive personal learning experience. Sorry about that :!:

How Old are you ??
http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... 36&start=0
"Just wondering what the age of majoity for insight owners are...
21 here"

The only "positive" spin that can be put on it is that you chose to share your experiences here and give potential new buyers something to think about.

Please understand I'm _NOT_ talking "down" to you. Simply been there, done that, but threw away the receipts that could prove it (20+ years ago...).

Thanks for the post :!:

florida_gators · Oct 10, 2005

I purchased my 2000 5-speed a year ago with around 34,700 miles on it. To date, the only reason it has been into the shop is for new front brakes and rotors. The current mileage is 47,500. Current LMPG is 59.4 and rising (shooting for that 60 mark

), with no warm air modifications done last winter since, taking John's advice, I don't know what I'm doing and don't want to risk damaging the car without having the tools to properly monitor the vehicle. (I hope I quoted you right on that one!

) I did reset the LMPG when I bought the car to reflect my accomplishments. Best of all--most of this is city Indianapolis driving. Jack rabbit starts definitely have a serious impact on MPG. When I infrequently get the urge to do one (such as when someone deliberately moves from behind me to beside me at a stop light upon seeing my car since the person assumes I will be slow :evil: yes, my pet peeve--call it "Insight Road Rage" lol), my tank MPGs drop anywhere from .2-.4, even with 300+ miles on that tank of gas. Of course--never anything reckless or stupid...just to help avoid the incorrect stigma that hybrids are slow. And this is just from one fast start. I do get passed frequently since I drive around the speed limit, but I figure I make up that time back when I pass them at the gas station! Just my personal Insight experience FYI.

Rob

Getshocked.ca · Oct 10, 2005

Before the insight I had a 1991 Toyota tercel which i bought with 150,000km and I got the insight when it was at 230,000 km. I replaced the timing belt and waterpump, I drove that car in the exact same manner as I drove my insight, I never once had a problem

Although I drive the car hard (as in im not light footed) Please tell me how that is any different from others sharing the same experiences but arent driving it hard? And im pretty sure I meant in relation to the people who are driving 20km/h in their insight to acheive some un-realistic LMPG

I have done oil changes on every 5000km, I have done every schedualed maintenace BEFORE the date

Also, Please explain to me how driving the car hard relates to Honda not being able to diagnos a problem without a check engine light?

Please tell me how driving my car hard has given me a longer battery life then alot of people on this forum who are having recalls 3-5 times a week?

I know you are a moderator and might want to protect some sort of image, but what i am experiencing is no different then alot others have, and although you personaly may not have a problem doesnt mean that I, or others are wrong in their findings

Getshocked.ca · Oct 10, 2005

b1shmu63 · Oct 10, 2005

Well Getshocked, I'm glad to hear that you are not having trouble with your IMA battery. I must say I'm surprised!

I seem to recall that the first time you arrived on the forum you were complaining about your run-ins with the local police who were stopping you for no reason.

The second time you were having issues with your under body panels which you had ripped off after driving through snow drifts for an hour at highway speeds. (Honda replaced them for free if I recall.)

Now you have set up a web site called "Honda sucks", where you complain about your repair costs. Yes, I'd be upset too. That's why I'm really surprised that you are still driving a Honda! Personally I think you should switch back to Toyota, or get yourself an American car. Sorry, but this situation reminds me of a really bad marriage where two people are tearing into each other all the time but don't have the sense to call it quits.

I'm not a moderator, just an enthusiast, and this site is for owners and enthusiasts. If your style had been less antagonistic there are many here that would have used their valuable time to try and work out answers for your problems, as they have done for others.

Perhaps the only advice I can offer is, if you really want to design web sites for a living, you might tone it down a little. That is unless you are planning on taking on the car companies, like Ralph Nader or Roger Moore.

Getshocked.ca · Oct 10, 2005

I think you recall wrong

I have posted many things to this forum, one was my enthusiast website getshocked.ca Which was more of a personal blog, on that blog I had many things such as stereo mods etc and experineces with the car, and I blogged my experience with being pulled over due to blue fog lights which is irrelevant to this post

Yes I have a website, hondasucks.ca which i was not going to mention on this site, that is the natural progression of getshocked.ca to what feelings I am now left with after 3 years of honda hybrid ownership

Why not get rid of it? because the resale value in Canada is extremly low, and the trade in value is even worse. After paying over 30,000 CND for this car and warrenty, loosing 25,000 dollars has not been an option

I have been watching these forums and reading others problems with the IMA and so on and I have thought to myself thank god i havent had that problem, now, this year i am having them, and im trapped.

Just search through the troubles section, read the links i posted above, their experiences are very similar to mine

Granted I may be more vocal then the rest of you, but that doesnt make my experiences any less valid.

I understand that some of you view your cars as some sort of god and if someone says something to the contrary you get your back up, one day you are going to have to come to terms with the reality of this car

Insightful Trekker · Oct 10, 2005

Getshocked.ca said:
I know you are a moderator and might want to protect some sort of image, but what i am experiencing is no different then alot others have, and although you personaly may not have a problem doesnt mean that I, or others are wrong in their findings

SENT:

Not "protecting" anything, hence no edits or deletions :!: :!: :!:

As long as the discussion remains within the boundaries of the rules it will remain open (unlocked).

Just trying to be of the _best_ help possible. And trying to see the bigger picture.Which is easy to loose sight of if your too close.

Your very _bad_ <nodding in agreement> experience is most unusual. Some of it can also be attributed to your local dealerships diagnosis difficulties.

HTH!

james · Oct 10, 2005

"Why not get rid of it? because the resale value in Canada is extremly low, and the trade in value is even worse. After paying over 30,000 CND for this car and warrenty, loosing 25,000 dollars has not been an option..."

I don't quite understand. You've paid for the car already, right? So that money's gone. If you keep it, you are stuck with a car you dislike, and apparently, despite having paid for an extra warranty, have to keep spending money trying to fix it. Isn't it about time to cut your losses?

If I sound a bit unsympathetic, it's because my experience with my Insight has been so completely the opposite of yours. Bought a used 2000 with about 50K miles, at what I thought even then was a bargain price. 2.5 years and about 20K miles later, I've had exactly one "problem" (discovering that the main battery is useless if the 12-volt goes dead), been rear-ended by an idiot in a Suburban, got 80.1 mpg on the last tank despite not driving conservatively...

In short, I wouldn't trade it for any other car on the road - except maybe the pre-WWII Rolls-Royce touring car that pulled up to the pump next to mine at the ElCheapo gas station this weekend

Aaron Cake · Oct 10, 2005

I'm not sure why I'm replying to this, but here goes...

I certainly agree that Honda does indeed suck. At least, their technical knowledge of the cars they produce sure does. My own experiences have confirmed that many (most?) of the Honda techs I spoke with don't even have elementary knowledge of how a typical fuel injection system works, much less that of the Insight. However, I am very disappointed at the content of your website. It could have been a GREAT site, that covered the advantages/disadvantages and reality of owning an exotic and limited production car. But as it stands right now, it boils down to several pages of you complaining, giving 10%of the story (based on what I have read on this forum) and just being generally negative. In addition, the most important section of the site, the Tech section, doesn't exist! In my quick review, I saw no details on your conversations from Honda, no dealership experiences, nothing.

Wait...I took another look at the site and the paragraph above isn't exactly accurate. Due to the design of the site, the scroll bar was hidden about 200 pixels off to the side of my browser. Maximizing the window and doing some horizontal scrolling found it. That said, after a quick read I still get the impressions I stated above. Little technical detail, many inaccuracies. For example, you mention an IMAP sensor...IMAP is an acronym for Internet Message Access Protocol. It is the replacement for the venerable POP protocol. What you probably meant was MAP sensor, standing for Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor. I believe that I have already corrected you previously regarding this sensor on this forum.

I also noticed that you centered on the O2 sensor incident. It is COMPLETELY normal for ANYTHING to do with exhaust work to be a major pain in the butt. Due to the heat, moisture and corrosive gasses, things like O2 sensors seize in place and often have to be extracted using extraordinary means.

Enough about the website. In general, your attitude on this site has been nothing but negative. Remember the 100 MPG thread in which you basically called everyone a lier since your personal experience did not agree? Just one of many examples.

Now, as I have said before, Honda dealers should not even be trusted to change oil. My first hand and very painful 5 month experience of dealing with Honda has been posted before, so I'm not going into to it. You know what? I stopped taking my car to the dealer and fixed it myself. Problem solved. Have you considered an independent mechanic? Or perhaps finding another knowledgeable owner with a service manual? Maybe learning a little about the basics of how the car operates? Either way, there is no reason to take the car to a Honda dealer at all. Especially when the warranty is up.

I'm really not sure where I'm going with this. It seems to be in all different directions...

Regarding coming to terms with the reality of this car. I did plenty of research before purchase, but it was not until my problem that it actually hit me. So what? It's basically an exotic car. Do you really expect dealer support? Perhaps you should take an RX-7 to a Mazda dealer, and then you will discover how abysmal support truly is (not that I have ever done this). I think it is UNREALISTIC to buy a 1st run car with a powertrain that is new and immature and then expect it to be as reliable and cheap as a CIVIC. Clearly, the Insight is not a car for you. Perhaps you should sell it, take the loss, consider it a learning experience and go buy a used Civic?

Now, for the technical stuff. If you have killed yet another cat, then there is obviously something horribly wrong. The troubleshooting steps are the same for ANY car at this point. Verify:

1. Fuel pressure
2. Ignition (this will light a CEL for sure)
3. Intake air temp, coolant temp (will cause the ECM to run the car rich)
4. Have injectors removed and ultrasonically cleaned

Like any modern car, the Insight's fuel system is computer controller. The ECM relies on multiple inputs (most important being the temp sensors, LAF sensor and MAP sensor) to determine a fuel curve. If any of these sensors are slightly off, bad things happen and a CEL may not light. The factory service manual contains procedures to check these sensors, which any mechanic can carry out.

Since there's no way you spend time in lean burn with your current lifetime mileage, you are not burning them out but poisoning them with fuel. Are you perhaps burning kerosene instead of gas? Regular 87 octane will do just fine.

IamIan · Oct 10, 2005

insight trouble

Sorry to hear about your probelms....

but to be blunt... I don't share them... My car is hands down the best car I have ever had... sorry if you had one of the bad apples off the Honda Insight tree.

Also I recognize that people will have problem cars... Every Car Company and every retailer of anything for that matter will have those times when a customer is pissed off with them.... sometimes the product itself is at fault and they pull them from the market.... Other times and no one likes to point the finger at themselves but in my experience the customer is more often at fault than the company...

I don't think any car or any product ever made has had 100% customer satisfaction... there is always someone out there pissed off at that company or that product... sometimes for real good reasons and other times for half baked finger pointing.

Driving a car hard always puts harder wear and tear on the car this is just a fact of life when you use anything hard you wear it out faster.... this driving style is also why you have such almost record low MPG from an insight.... But I would still bet you that if you drive the same way ANY other car will get lower MPG than you are getting in the insight... The same numbers that gave honda 60+ MPG on the Insight gave the other auto makers the MPG numbers they post on thier other cars... The 68+advertised MPG is partially a way of driving as is the 80+MPG of some of those on this site as is your almost record low 40 some MPG... it is also partially where you are driving the car which may be entirely out of your control... to expect the car to get near 70 MPG when you admit to being a lead foot and driving it hard... is not realisticly looking at the situation... Heck I have a LMPG of 60 and that I admit is 80 to 90 % all me... I like from time to time ... ok allot of the time beating SUVs and the like off the starting line.... I like to drive about the speed limit or 5 to 10 MPH faster... I don't enjoy being passed by other people espeically Larger SUVs and the like.... and I haven't done the mechanical stuff of putting in cold air mods and such and I don't drive with extra high PSI in my tires etc...etc.... In short I don't put forth the effort to get better than 60 MPG so of course I don't just don't expect to get those high MPG numbers except when I do... For instance I forced myself to drive for fuel economy and forget about the speed limit and other cars on the road and put some extra air in my tires etc... and over 120 miles I got 88 MPG.... so I know the car can do it ... but not on it's own... I am at least 1/3 if not 90 % of the equation ... I would bet that if you had another Insighter who gets above 70 MPG regularly for their insight do a trip check with your car that they also would get higher MPG than you do... and if they still get 70 or so from your car then sorry bub the 40 is all you.

As for why they haven't been able to fix things properly in your insight... I would say this is one of two things.... either the place you go to fix it are not skilled enough mechanics to properly fix the problem or you are just breaking it from the way it is being treated and has nothing to do with repair.... A good mechanic who knows the car can do wonders... and I have seen some of this but most mechanics don't give a rats ***.

As for the costs.... VW are also expensive to repair... and so are BMWs and so are allot of cars... And I have heard freinds and family bitch about the costs of repairing them all... if you had no idea of the general costs of repair for a car type or a car model before you bought it.... that's right.. its your fault for not checking it out and looking into it ahead of time.... When I bought my insight I knew a few things from research and common sense ... Honda would be more expensive to fix than Domestic Cars would be... also as the first Hyrbid car thier would also more than likely be additional premium for repairs as a regular mechanic can't fix some of the things on the car without help from a specalist and since the car is in lower production volumes than other cars that parts would be more expensive and have longer wait times than other cars or even other hondas.... Those are things to expect... Toyota is the same in most reguards ecpect the Prius is in higher production runs than the insight so the parts and the number of properly trained mechanics should be more common.

In short Maybe you go a bad apple... it happens.. Intel Make bad chips from tiem to tiem and so does AMD and People sell bad hard drives and people sell bad food in grocery stores and some times you just get a bad apple... so that is intirely possible.... another possability is that you abuse the product and you break it and all the problems are your own doing.... another prossobilty is that the mechancis you have are hacks and dont' know **** about properly repairing a Honda Insight.....

Or the most likely of all.... it is a combination of things.... Welcome to real world... **** happens.... life sucks.... and yes 80 to 90% of everything that happens or doesn't happen to you is ... you guess it... YOUR FAULT.!!!!

My 2 Bits.

Getshocked.ca · Oct 10, 2005

I wouldnt have the tech section on my site listed if i wasnt intending to use it

The focus of my site is for 2 main problems, the cats and the ima system. If you search back u will see that the stories were basically cut and paste from what I listed here

Also Aaron (i knew it was only a matter of time before you weighed in on this) I am open to constructive suggestions on my site and if you e-mailed me off the forum (since this isnt the place for it) I would actually appreciate your input since my goal is to get justice for my problems. I would also like to add that everything on my site is factual, it is my personal experience. The figures were added up from warrenty/repair records and it even includes a 30,000km gap in my records

Yes I understand this is a first gen car, Yes I understand it is new technology, but will all do respect I use to hold honda in the highest regard, I figures if any company would get this right it would be honda or toyota. That being said,

I am extremly fusterated, Why?

Because I see that my IMA is failing me, I have read everyone elses horror stories on this site and other forums about the total costs and implications of having one fail at the wrong time. My car is still covered under warrenty, And because I have no error codes I cant get the repairs I need, Its like your doctor telling you that you have cancer and your IMO Rejecting any treatment, you know something is wrong but your hands are tied. And how would taking this to a private mechanic help me? they wouldnt know what an ima is let alone where to start

When it comes to the catalytic converter it is the same thing, I dont know much about engines, but what i do know is the frequency of them being replaced is beyond normal, It sickens me that I have paid deductables and what not to have my car diagnosed, now to find out once it is out of warrenty on that specific peice that they will not cover it. This is nothing new for me.

You are right, Alot of my posts on this site have been negative, But getshocked.ca which has had just over 7000 hits since its inception, was a pro-insight website. When I come here i am really looking for answers, And usually I am really mad at the time of the post because

A) I have just been told i wont have my car for X amount of weeks
B) I have been told that nothing is wrong, when i know there is
C) I dont feel i am getting the full support i paid for from Honda

Usually when i come here it is after long fighting with honda plus...

nortoncomando · Oct 10, 2005

How exactly does one ' abuse ' a car? Is the Insight not a normal car and must be driven a certain way?
Full thottle is there to be used. It's not abuse. Hard clutch and brake use are one thing, but not an issue in this poor guys case.
The fault here sounds like the dealer is not happy enough with the money they make on warranty repairs, they want more.
Come on Honda of Canada, get with it, EH?

Getshocked.ca · Oct 11, 2005

Exactly,

I would also like to add my driving style is the same as some of you have mentioned. I actually take very good care of my car, and by "Driving it hard" I mean in comparison to the people stiving to get 100mpg by feathering and doing below the limit. I drive my Insight the same as 90% of the people on the road drive their car, Most of my comute is on the highway (few years ago it was to orillia, which is like 1.5 hour drive, and now to oakville witch is like a 45 min drive) On average im doing 10km/hour over the limit...

I do not abuse my car, maybe my ear drums, but not my car.

Insightful Trekker · Oct 11, 2005

Getshocked.ca said:
<snip>
I do not abuse my car, maybe my ear drums, but not my car.

Well,

Abuse is something much more severe than hard driving. And While I don't know much about your driving pattern(s) I do know that driving as you describe here:

Risk your life, drive an insight. Faulty Imap sensor also
http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... ght=#31357

"Well, on my recent trip to the states I had a complete IMA Failure twice, both lasting around 15-20 minutes while traveling through the mountains of tennesse at 85mph with big transport trucks behind me."

*IS* _HARD_ driving. :|
(see _MY_ location

)

Guess we'll never know for sure the reasons why you've experienced such an unusual sequence of problems.

The Insight is not for everybody.

It's my sincerest hope that you find a car the meets your expectations better than the Insight has.

HTH!

Getshocked.ca · Oct 11, 2005

I dont know about you, but going with the flow of trafic is safer then being a hazard impeding trafic. That was also my first time driving in the south, in canada the speed limit on hwys is far less (100km an hour) I believe in tennesee it was 70mph on that hwy. Are you now saying that the insight shouldnt be drivin on hwys since it cant keep up with the flow of traffic? please do explain

Do you not read the problems section and see all the weird IMA problems people are posting in there? many others have experienced the same things I have

You seem hell bent on finding some excuse, like you dont want to believe these cars have some serious issues, Why dont you analysis the circumstances around everyone else who posts IMA Failures in the help section? seems the condition of my batteries has out lasted many others, which is sad to say the least.

I must of missed that ad where it said

"Insight not for the following, and then lists everything from hwy use to winter driving.

Maybe it would be easier for it to say

"Insight only intended for middle aged men with fallen arches, since it would be too painful for them to apply pressure to the pedal"

Give me a break, saying the insight is not for everyone should not encapsulate driving styles

You are a moderater right???

Take a look at this page on Insight Central

http://www.insightcentral.net/KB/faq-ef ... celeration

TIP: Use full-throttle acceleration

Effort involved / impact on driver: Medium

You'll get the best efficiency around town by accelerating with full throttle, and shifting up to the next gear quickly, before engine RPMs rise too high.

There are two reason why this works. One is that the higher the gear, the lower the frictional losses. By getting to 5th quickly, the total number of engine revolutions is reduced, with a corresponding reduction in frictional losses. The second reason is pumping losses. This is the work done to force air past a partially closed throttle plate. The more closed the throttle is, the higher the losses. Accelerating quickly reduces throttle losses, because the throttle is open. In addition, engine speed is lower in fifth, so to generate the same amount of power, you have a larger throttle opening (and hence lower throttle losses) - this is another reason to get to higher gears as quickly as possible.

The best fuel economy is gained by a combination of the gas petal to the floor with shifts at as low an rpm as possible to sustain your desired acceleration. This ensures a fully open throttle during the entire acceleration event and gets you out of the lower gears as quickly as possible, for lower frictional losses. It also gives you even more electric motor assist, as the acceleration takes longer. There is only one problem with this technique - its virtually impossible to do. You have to shift like a race car driver, except that the shifts are at low rpm instead of high rpm. You wind up going through gears like a maniac. It can be a lot of fun, but you have to be really involved with driving (no cell phones) and the technique is extremely counterintuitive. The combination of mashing the accelerator and shifting at 2500 or 3000 rpm just doesn't feel right. However, if someone is willing to practice this, they can get a nice boost in FE around town.

After accelerating this way in 1st & 2nd gears, you'll often be up to your desired cruising speeds. Now it is time to switch modes, using as little energy as possible to maintain this speed. Typically you'll now want to be in fifth gear. The 1-2-5 shift pattern (or 1-2-4 as the case may be) may seem strange at first. After all, why are those other gears there if you shouldn't use them? The answer is to think of them as passing gears or cruising at slower speed gears. In most cases, this is the way I use the five gears:

1: Accelerating gear
2: Accelerating gear
3: Even slower cruising / quick passing gear
4: Slow cruising / slower passing gear
5: Cruising gear

Once you're up to speed, in addition to quickly getting into your cruising gear, you'll also want to begin feathering the throttle. Since you should have done all your acceleration before going into cruising gear, you now want to use as light a throttle as possible that will still maintain your current speed. If you find that you want to accelerate further, you may be better to downshift for a quick blip of acceleration, and then shift back into your cruising gear.

Maybe you should ask the owner of this site to change that since obviously it doesnt target the desired driving style of honda, and according to you this is abuse

Insightful Trekker · Oct 11, 2005

Getshocked.ca said:
You seem hell bent on finding some excuse, like you don t want to believe these cars have some serious issues, Why don t you analysis the circumstances around everyone else who posts IMA Failures in the help section? seems the condition of my batteries has out lasted many others, which is sad to say the least.

Your car obviously has serious issues. Why :?: Almost impossible to say via a newsgroup. I found the only common denominator available in your posts.

Getshocked.ca said:
Maybe you should ask the owner of this site to change that since obviously it dosent target the desired driving style of honda, and according to you this is abuse

Good point. Its been proven that WOT acceleration does not maximize MPG.

I've _NOT_ used the word abuse :!: Which is _VERY_ different that what I've chosen to use, "hard driving". I understand your frustration better than you think, but when post exchanges deteoriate to one changing another's words little is communicated. My read is such situations it that the one doing the changing has an agenda that they do not want challenged.

The facts of the matter are your Insight has suffered many more failures than average. Why :?: I guess we'll never know for sure. And without a doubt it will happen to some future Insighter too.

My hope was your thread could help shed some light on the subject to help a future owner. What other purposes are there for your post :?:

A rant :?: OK, You've clearly accomplished that. And again it *IS* understandable. But the next question is where do _you_ go from here. Another Insight :?: Probably not a good idea.

Help solving the "mystery" :?: A _very_ difficult task. Little accomplished here. And such a goal is more of an ideal than a possibility. Again given the complexities of your situation, sorry :!:

Getshocked.ca · Oct 11, 2005

This is where we disagree and I am trying to get through to you that it is not suffering "More then average" failures, just a few quick searches through your troubleshooting section and you will see that there are alot of people in alot worse situations then I am with their Insights. That being said, there are people who have had problem free experiences. BUT, one thing you cant argue with me on is that alot of people are having pre-mature battery failure, and we all share one thing in common, all our isights have batteries. So weather you are experiencing it yet or not, it is happening

I would also like to note, that the core of my complaints end up comming back to a) lack of parts, which in turn cause b) not being able to drive my car and then c) fustration with dealers who cant diagnose my car.

I would also like to remind you Insight Trekker of one thing, these two major developments in my car has happened within the past 6-8 months (or atleast reared symptoms) I have almost double the ammount of Miles that you have according to your signature

If I was to look into a crystal ball I would probably see that in 1-2 years time the Trouble shooting and Problems section of this forum will out number the general discussion in posts because their will be alot of very angry owners out there. I see the Yahoo Newsgroup is already going this way. Very few praises, but alot of complaints.

basically i want answers from honda, that is why hondasucks.ca exists.... weather you think your car is a problem now or not, applying pressure to honda for answers to common problems like IMA failure and Recall is something that we *all* should be supporting, and if you do not like the style or think i should do something different please e-mail me because im open to that

Aaron Cake · Oct 11, 2005

Getshocked.ca said:
appreciate your input since my goal is to get justice for my problems.

My suggestion is to fix it yourself. Failing that, find a competant NON-HONDA mechanic who can do the work. These cars are not "rocket science". Troubleshsooting procedures are in the service manual, and in general it's a very easy car to work on.

Yes I understand this is a first gen car, Yes I understand it is new technology, but will all do respect I use to hold honda in the highest regard, I figures if any company would get this right it would be honda or toyota. That being said,

You will find similar problems with almost any 1st run car. All my automotive interests are the so-called "weird" cars, and I see similar issues everywhere. The Insight is only unique in that it is still being produced and we have cars that may be covered under warranty.

I am extremly fusterated, Why?

I totally understand this, but it seems that you just keep returning to those that cause the frustration. I agree that Honda should be able to support their cars, but the reality is that they can't.

implications of having one fail at the wrong time. My car is still covered under warrenty, And because I have no error codes I cant get the repairs <snip>
And how would taking this to a private mechanic help me? they wouldnt know what an ima is let alone where to start

Have you taken a Honda "tech" for a ride during an IMA failure?

If you find a decent mechanic, they surly would know about the IMA. That is easier said then done of course. But once the problem is diagnosed (service manual...you don't actually need to know anything about hybrids when you have the manual) by indipendant shops, Honda may be more interested in providing the parts.

When it comes to the catalytic converter it is the same thing, I dont know much about engines, but what i do know is the frequency of them being replaced is beyond normal, It sickens me that I have paid deductables and what not to have my car diagnosed, now to find out once it is out of warrenty on that specific peice that they will not cover it. This is nothing new for me.

Depends on the car and driving habits. If there is something fundamentally wrong with the car, then cats will die a rapid death. The initial problem must be corrected first or the cat will die again. If you are only receiving ~50 MPG and as you say do mostly highway driving, then something is dreadfully wrong.

BTW, both of my other automotive interestes (DeLoreans and RX-7s) are cat killers as well. The RX-7 much more then the DeLorean.

A) I have just been told i wont have my car for X amount of weeks

You need to find a different dealer. Even London Honda (yuck) was able to get parts within a few days.

B) I have been told that nothing is wrong, when i know there is
C) I dont feel i am getting the full support i paid for from Honda

Get used to it, suck it up, and find someone else to support the car.

I think I have to echo that the Insight is not for everyone. Certain cars require certain people, and maybe you're just the wrong person for the car. At this point you can continue, maybe a the expense of your sanity. Or you can cut your losses and find something else.

james · Oct 11, 2005

"Do you not read the problems section and see all the weird IMA problems people are posting in there?"

No, I don't often look at that section, because as I said, I haven't had problems. But I did look just now, and I didn't see that many real problems, at least on the first page. No autostop because hubby changed the A/C settings? Major problem

Regen going off on a rough road due to ABS? Really major!

Seriously, there do seem to be some cars with real problems, others with mysterious conditions like the recals, that might be problems or might just be because of the way the car's used. Most of the "problems", though, seem to be just a matter of not knowing how things work on the Insight.

"Insight only intended for middle aged men with fallen arches..."

Thank you for sharing that, but my arches are just fine

As to your basic thesis, I drive my Insight at or above the flow of traffic. At lights, I'm usually 100 feet down the road before the guy in the next lane starts moving. I've driven it over 8900 ft mountain passes in snowstorms, at 80+ through the desert between Las Vegas and Reno, and on dirt roads in the Sierra.

I have no problems. Many others here can say the same. Given that, can we be excused for wondering whether the problem with yours isn't, in fact, the nut holding the steering wheel?

Have you ever had another Insight owner drive yours for a while?

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