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Scientific? So, I should include my whole trip including 18 stop lights, 7 miles of stop n go traffic to show the actual mpg? :confused:

I thought taking the same route, same time of day, same direction, same speed, same cargo and weather conditions was the best scientific method?

Thats one reason I use cruse control vs hypermiling, so if anyone wants to follow me they can test it and rule out driver input .


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Scientific? So, I should include my whole trip including 18 stop lights, 7 miles of stop n go traffic to show the actual mpg? :confused:

I thought taking the same route, same time of day, same direction, same speed, same cargo and weather conditions was the best scientific method?

Thats one reason I use cruse control vs hypermiling, so if anyone wants to follow me they can test it and rule out driver input .


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You're confusing the terms. Although repeatability is a requirement for an experiment to be valid scientifically, just because it's repeatable doesn't mean it has scientific significance.
If you want to show repeatability of a measurement, then yes, taking the same route, same time of day, same direction, same speed, same cargo and weather conditions is a good start.
But you can't use the mpg number that you get from that experiment as an indication of what your average mpg is. If you do, then your conclusion is scientifically wrong.
You got a number for a particular stretch of road.
Honda claims the average for the Insight is 42mpg. My experience confirms that they are very close.
Your video shows you averaging 80mpg in one stretch and 60mpg in another.
Unless you've added a flux capacitor or some other gizmo in your car, I'd venture to say that both of those stretches are downhill.
That's why you need to average over a round trip.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
60+80/2 is 70. I think you are mis reading what I am posting, but Ill agree with the numbers. Not quite double epa, but its livable and exceedable.


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If we are using the total tank as an average, then I get in the mid 60s. This is from a range of driving, some idle, lots of traffic.

Since you seem to be the expert, lets see your fuel economy?


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If we are using the total tank as an average, then I get in the mid 60s. This is from a range of driving, some idle, lots of traffic.

Since you seem to be the expert, lets see your fuel economy?
..........:Boxing:


 

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If we are using the total tank as an average, then I get in the mid 60s. This is from a range of driving, some idle, lots of traffic.

Since you seem to be the expert, lets see your fuel economy?


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I wouldn't call myself an expert, but I do tend to use logic and common sense. I am also a scientist by training (an engineer to be exact).

However, I never claimed to be a hypermiler. Nor am I interested in that area / field (notice I didn't use the term science ;-) ).
I do like cars and driving. My kind of fun is going to the race track and flooring the pedal. I'm not a modder. I only replace what's broken and with OEM part, if I can help. Quite the opposite of your interests, so let's not go there.
Unfortunately, my Insight is suffering the plague of the new double secretive Honda software update, which killed its fuel efficiency. I made a thread about that, I'm sure you'll recall.

Having disclosed that background, allow me a retort:
Even if you measure over one entire gas tank it's not a valid claim for an average mpg. For instance, let's say I live in the mountains. I go on a trip to the beach. I use 1 tank to get there, but it's mostly downhill. Is that my average mpg? NOT until I go back home. As I said multiple times, you have to average over a round trip, back to where you started.

Food for thought: if, as you claimed, a one way trip over select stretches of road is a valid measure, then I don't understand what hypermiling is all about.
We all know that when the Insight is coasting down hill, it displays 99.99mpg.
I have one particular stretch with just enough inclination that I can coast at 40mph over the entire mile long. If I were to tape that and post on youtube, you'd see my display at 99.99.
Do I beat y'all hypermilers? :D
 

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The average real world MPG for the Insight is 44 MPG per tank; according to fuelly. This is with over 2.3 million miles tracked. That is about my overall average since I've owned my Insight. My worst tank was like 36 and my best was 49.

Cobb is running an Enginer PHEV kit and that's the main reason why he averages in the mid 60's per tank.
 

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I've been averaging 46.8 since I started using Fuelly last Dec. The warm weather this week should show a sharp upward spike in the next tank results I post. The MID says 55.4 at the moment - If I filled up today, the calculated result would be 2-3 mpg lower for a gain of 5-6 mpg!
 

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We all know that when the Insight is coasting down hill, it displays 99.99mpg.
I have one particular stretch with just enough inclination that I can coast at 40mph over the entire mile long. If I were to tape that and post on youtube, you'd see my display at 99.99.
Do I beat y'all hypermilers? :D
I don't see a problem with that :p

Seriously - I've read elsewhere in the forums where people have MPG contests over a given distance (although 1 mile is pretty short) and post their results.

If you did record that scenario above, though, I think people would pretty quickly see that it's over an extremely short distance and wouldn't take that to mean it's your MPG average - even if you were trying to represent it as such.

Oh and on the 99.99 thing, if you want to feel really good about yourself, get a ScanGaugeII (or similar). While getting battery assist and no use of the ICE ("EV mode"), it will report 9,999MPG :D
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The past 3 years Ive owned, driven and posted you tube videos showing my mpg.

If you are going to base your success or failure of mpg by waiting til you burn through 11 gallons of gas you can have at it. Some folks have multiple drivers and short commutes and its not going to give any useful feed back in regards to any driving techniques, routes, gas blends, weather, etc.

If you want to test mods, technique, weather or other conditions you need to find a set route you can drive on with the cruse control set to a certain speed. Then do this daily to get an idea and average of that segment. Then make your changes and repeat.

My segment is from Where Hull St leads to the Chippenham Pkwy, to i95 N to the Maury St exit. Its a segment that I do not need to turn off cruse control and speed up or slow down and I feel comfortable filming.

Having said that, after burning through 11 gallons of gas my mid shows around 65mpg.

Scientific or not I am still in the lead. From what I have found you need at least ten miles as some mods work better on a cold engine vs warm and can have the reverse effects once you cross into the other zone. Sure you can reset the trip and coast down a hill, however if you did that and mods changed the results, what would that tell you? Ive seen 60-83mpg on the same route so far. If I reset the trip and coasted down a hill it reads 150mpg.

BTW, the video showing 65 above is with 500 sq ft of carpet in the rear. Ive also removed the rear bumper.

I hear one side of aerodynamics says an object needs to be pointed at both ends, another says pointed at the leading end, flat at the trailing end.

I see so far that having a flat trailing ends helps handling and mpg.


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Seriously - I've read elsewhere in the forums where people have MPG contests over a given distance (although 1 mile is pretty short) and post their results.
If I could, I'd put on my mask and cape and go out at night to eradicate stupid contests. ;)
 

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The past 3 years Ive owned, driven and posted you tube videos showing my mpg.

If you are going to base your success or failure of mpg by waiting til you burn through 11 gallons of gas you can have at it. Some folks have multiple drivers and short commutes and its not going to give any useful feed back in regards to any driving techniques, routes, gas blends, weather, etc.

If you want to test mods, technique, weather or other conditions you need to find a set route you can drive on with the cruse control set to a certain speed. Then do this daily to get an idea and average of that segment. Then make your changes and repeat.

My segment is from Where Hull St leads to the Chippenham Pkwy, to i95 N to the Maury St exit. Its a segment that I do not need to turn off cruse control and speed up or slow down and I feel comfortable filming.

Having said that, after burning through 11 gallons of gas my mid shows around 65mpg.

Scientific or not I am still in the lead. From what I have found you need at least ten miles as some mods work better on a cold engine vs warm and can have the reverse effects once you cross into the other zone. Sure you can reset the trip and coast down a hill, however if you did that and mods changed the results, what would that tell you? Ive seen 60-83mpg on the same route so far. If I reset the trip and coasted down a hill it reads 150mpg.

BTW, the video showing 65 above is with 500 sq ft of carpet in the rear. Ive also removed the rear bumper.

I hear one side of aerodynamics says an object needs to be pointed at both ends, another says pointed at the leading end, flat at the trailing end.

I see so far that having a flat trailing ends helps handling and mpg.


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Allow me to clarify... I'm not trying to question the efficacy of your PHEV mod. I didn't even know you had such a thing.
It's not my intent to contest that your PHEV does 56mpg instead of 65mpg. I'll leave that up to you.
I simply made a comment on the methodology you used in your video.
If you take one measurement over one stretch of road, unless you can verify that your end point B is exactly at the same altitude as your starting point A, the result is... inconclusive at best. Even if you eliminate altitude as a variable, you'd have wind and temperature.
I can appreciate the difficulty of finding a good stretch of road that will allow you to hold a camera and drive. If you found one good enough to make that video, how about driving it the other direction, and then averaging the two measurements?

Now, what is that I read? You removed the rear bumper in order to get better mpg? Don't you think a bumper is there for a reason?
You're proving my theory that hypermilers do whatever they do to get that magical number mainly for bragging rights (someone else mentioned a competition). It's not based on logic nor common sense. It's definitely not for saving money.
For example, assuming your PHEV gives you an extra 20mpg and say you drive 10K miles a year. At $2K for the kit you'd need to drive almost 7 years to pay off that kit.
But you have the bragging rights. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
If you want to split hairs, I removed the bumper cover. The thingie that projects out from the rear of the car is still there. I did this like Ive done the phev kit and other mods, for drivability. MPG is a good side effect. I have extra red reflectors on the hatch, so I am still legal.

Another guy here added to his bumper and made his car a few feet longer for mpg.

This was a free mod, only took 15 minutes to do. These in combination of the phev kit add up.

Right now you are assuming all variables are fixed. I wished I drove 10 thousand miles a year. I am on the hunt for another job, so 60miles a day maybe half of my new commute. Gas may go to and exceed 5 bucks a gallon. What are the chances the reverse happens to both?

Plan B was a turbo for a Honda Fit, glad I choose plan A.

Beats me how to tell elevation. My phone has a reading but its margin of error is over 100 ft. If my drive back was just as smooth I would do the average thing. Problem is sometimes I get traffic for miles, I have to go 10-20 over my previous mph to avoid traffic merging from 64 to and from 95.

Having said that and actually doing the math the average of 70 is fine with me for the purpose of this post and average. :D


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It's not based on logic nor common sense. It's definitely not for saving money.
For example, assuming your PHEV gives you an extra 20mpg and say you drive 10K miles a year. At $2K for the kit you'd need to drive almost 7 years to pay off that kit.
But you have the bragging rights. ;)

You could apply that logic to our decision to purchase our Insights. Some folks who don't drive enough miles over the duration of ownership, will not recoup the premium paid for a hybrid.

MPG Illusion, gallons per mile, GPM, GPKM

The amount of miles Cobb drives, he probably already recouped almost half of the cost of his PHEV kit.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Our local tv is advertising against the prius and hybrids in general as you will not recoup your investment til 17 years down the road from the investment over a 40mpg kia, hyundai, etc.

My previous cars was a 09 scion xb and 97 super charged tacoma. With the scion I would go 345 miles on 12.5 gallons of regular gas. With my tacoma I got 245 miles on 14 gallons of premium.

With my Honda I get a little over 300 miles on half a tank or 5 gallons of regular and roughly 12 kilowatts of electricity.

Did I mention I traded the 2 vehicles for the Insight and my employer gave me 3 grand for buying one plus I got the new car tax credit and am filing the phev tax credit this year?

Now I am weighing upgrading and taking advantage of the solar credit thingie. :D


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