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xcel said:
Hi Greenhybrid:
GreenHybrid said:
Mileage has little to do with emissions.
___Now I know you have no clue as to what you are talking about. Go to EPA.gov and look up Greenhouse Gas emissions. Afterwards, you might actually learn something?
<sigh>

http://www.insightcentral.net/KB/compar ... e-tdi.html

High MPG = low CO2 (carbon dioxide) emissions

NOx (nitrous oxides), CO (carbon monoxides), HC (unburnt hyrdrocarbons) are other emissions, and they are not dependant on the MPG of a vehicle, but the setup of the engine and emissions systems. (I think O3 (ozone) is in there too, but I'm too lazy to look right now.)

For example, there are the PZEV versions of the Ford Focus, Nissan Sentra, Toyota Camry, and a few others, that match the emissions levels of the AT-PZEV versions of the Honda Civic Hybrid and the 2004 Prius (the latter 2 with significantly higher MPG than the former).

Depends if you're only concerned with global warming (CO2) emissions, or if you're also concerned about local low-level air pollution (smog, acid rain, etc.)
 
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Hi Mrv:

___Exactly … Greenhouse gases are CO2 emissions and are directly related to fuel economy. This is the planet killer. SMOG pollutants including HC, CO, NOx, and PM, are where the PZEV’s shine. These emissions are what will harm you with breathing problems later in life.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:288ok2ya][email protected][/email:288ok2ya]
 

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"Honda Insight: Depreciating, deflating in cost, discontinuing a possibility
Toyota Prius: In demand, inflating in cost, a new paradigm"

And how is this relevant? I mean, I already have an Insight, so it doesn't matter to me what they cost new. If the price goes down, that means more people might buy them, which would be a little disconcerting since I've gotten used to having something almost unique in these parts, but would generally be good for the environment and all that.

As for resale values, again, so what? The ONLY way I would sell or trade my Insight is if they do make the IMAS. (Or perhaps another maker comes out with something similar but better.) Otherwise I plan to drive it 'till it falls apart.

Even if I did sell it, since I bought mine used, my total cost will be well under $10K for however long I own it. If I bought a new Prius today, I bet I'd be paying well over list. How would that make me better off?

I don't see the popularity argument as rational. It's like all those people who bought tech stocks in the last year of the boom, you know? Seems a lot more sensible to buy when it's not in demand :)
 

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Fighting?

We're fighting? What? Where?

I love my hybrid Insight. And I yakked with a buddy the other day that loves his hybrid Prius. It was actually him letting me drive his Prius that really cemented my desire to buy a hybrid. Needless to say, the Insight is not the same as the Prius.

His jaw did drop when I told him the lifetime average MPG on my Insight CVT was 55.2 MPG, and that I was currently getting 62 MPG in the middle of winter (highs around 35 right now in the Salt Lake area) :) That's always fun. His has a lot more nifty features, though, and he's rigged a DVD player to his in-dash display. And his is quieter to drive around town.

It's all yummy goodness. I couldn't seem to get across to my friend that rode into work with me this morning that you never run on just electric power, and that you don't have to plug it in, though...
 

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Wait. Hold on. He rigged a DVD player in? First off, is it the "legal" not-when-you're-driving type? If so, we've been trying to figure out things like that for a long time! Could you get me in contact with him?
 

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Honda Insight: discontinuing a possibility
Toyota Prius: a new paradigm
I seem to hear a lot of people say "out with the old" concerning the Insight. I think this is just wrong... The Insight has been available in Japan since 1999, and everywhere else since 2000 (correct me if I'm wrong)? Also, the Insight seems to be slated to be continued in 2005, right? And again if I'm wrong.... the Prius has been available in Japan since 1997 and everywhere else since 2001? So what is that, between 5 and 6 years for the Insight model and between 4 and 8 years for the Prius model (albeit a revamped version)? Obviously Toyota won't be stopping production on the Prius just yet either! To get back to the quote though, I think all Hybrids are a new paradigm.

Drive safe,
~Martin
Recycled
2000 5 Spd
 

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GreenHybrid said:
Only time will tell if it's a collector's item.
True. However, I think it is quite likely that the Insight will be a collector's item because it has four things on its side - it is rare, desirable, it has longevity and the important X factor.
Can the same thing be said about the Prius? :wink:
 

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"...Honda will phase out the Insight because, frankly, it isn't popular enough."

I think Honda doesn't WANT the Insight to be too popular, because they lose a lot of money on every one they sell. I think they always meant it as sort of a loss-leader, so they could test hybrid technology in the real world, and get whatever public relations benefits come with it.

That's why I think that if they do decide on a new model Insight, something like the IMAS is the way they'll go. Still great mileage, but more performance, and marketed as a sports car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #74 ·
How'd you manage that? Worst stretch I've done was about 55 mpg over about 70 miles. That includes going over an 8900' pass, in a snowstorm. With tire chains on about half the way
Three weeks of in-city driving in at least 6 inches of snow will do wonders in lowering the milage of any vehicle. Especially when the trips are not long enough to even register on the temp gauge. :(

Finally got out on the highway today and managed 77.9 MPG in freezing rain without even really trying...

Also, I just have to add that judging a car based on resale value only works if you actually plan to SELL the car. For those of us who don't (I don't, and it seems a few others in this thread don't) it's a useless comparison.
 
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Hi All:

___86.4 mpg on the way home from work this morning. What else needs to be said :D

___Aaron, when I was driving through my subdivision during a snowstorm late last month (maybe 3” on the ground at the time), I was lucky to receive 40 mpg over the ¾ mile distance according to the instantaneous. You must be doing something right to get 45 +, that is for sure … I wonder what an 04 Prius is good for under your own winter driving conditions? I am sure a lot less.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:2045ga41][email protected][/email:2045ga41]
 
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