[Billy]

Warm greetings to all; Because of the type of 'cruizin I do (all highway) I urgently WISH the Insight did NOT have: the entire IMA system, power steering, anti-lock brakes, pwr windows, pwr mirrors, A/C, dual airbags. Can you imagine the weight savings, cost savings, and increased highway mpg? My 1987 CRX HF had none of these items, which is why it only weighed 1780 lbs with a conventional metal body. Airbags are indeed now required by law, but I could sure do without the other stuff.

The more I drive my car (78,000 k total) the more I realize that the primary reasons for my high freeway mpg (86.2 lmpg) is 1) aerodynamic shape of car & underbody 2) lean burn catalyst technology 3) small, efficient engine. Just give me a sleek, good looking, aero, aluminum, 3 cyl gas or diesel, tall geared, SIMPLE, 2 seater any day..............Billy....

 

[Guest]

Hi Billy:

___I swear you have read my mind many times over! I even looked at purchasing a VX or CRX HF as a winter vehicle after reading about them.

___I would still like to have side and side curtains as well as frontal bags for safety but the whole IMA setup seems to be added weight and is hugely expensive for my highway drive as well. I would need A/C for those times when I really need it here near Chicago but so far, 80 degrees F and below are just fine without A/C. I don’t think Power Windows add much of anything to the weight given the loss of handle and gearing although I might be wrong on that count given the power lifts harness and motor weight? Power locks could certainly go away. I guess what I would also like to see and I believe you do this on your longer trips is the ability to remove the passenger seat with a few levers or something instead of bolts.

___You have heard of the next CRX rendition possibly using our Insight’s 1.0 L ICE without the hybrid electrics, right If so, I know what my next car will be!

___Then again, the real answer lye’s with the Honda Accord Saloon using Honda’s all new iCDTi Diesel.

Launch report - Accord i-CTDi...

The exact capacity is 2204cc, the peak power output is 138bhp at 4000rpm, and Honda - whose petrol engines are maximised more for ultimate power than for torque - is rather pleased at the 250lb/ft its turbo diesel produces at 2000rpm.

The saloon, by contrast, is one of the quietest, smoothest and most refined diesel-powered cars on the market. It manages the 0-62mph sprint in 9.4 seconds and goes on to a maximum of 130mph. If it hadn't been able to beat 60mpg in the extra urban economy test, it wouldn't really have been in the running, but the official figures are 61.4mpg extra urban and 52.3mpg combined. Similarly, 150g/km would have been the target for CO2 emissions, and the actual result is well below that on 143.

___Now imagine a 1.0 - 1.3 L iCDTi in an Insight that weighs half as much with its aerodynamics improved or intact.You are talking about 100 mpg using the US’ EPA estimates without a stitch of Hybrid electrics and you can have power locks, mirrors, windows, sun roof, A/C, and just about any other damn thing you want installed! I bet it would out accelerate our current Insight given the usable torque below 2,000 RPM as well.

___Why in America do we keep having to F*** around when this simple and much less expensive technology is available right now for the Accord and should be available soon for the Civic and a high mileage version of the CRX-HF/VX/Insight whatever

___Here Toyota and Ford, stick this in your Prius, Highlander, RX400h, and Escape and smoke it

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:16ww7jou][email protected][/email:16ww7jou]

 

[Billy]

Hi Wayne; I think you are exactly correct, and I share your sentiments! The technology is there now to produce lots of small, aero, high tire pressure, simple, gas & diesel cars. with 90mpg! Instead, they are beginning the process of 1.3 billion $ for hydrogen fuel cell research.
I have refined my technique of removing and installing the passenger seat: 4 minutes each way. (I keep handy the 12 and 14 mm sockets, and work fast) I often remove the seat for long trips, then install it for a date with a cute girl. Yes, she has to be pretty good looking for me to put the seat back in........Billy...

 

[cakley]

Honda is really missing out on using the Insight frame. Diesel, gas, High Perfromance gas, and IMA should be offered as options.

Alot of people who commute long distance like small two door cars.

And another crazy following is diesel car owners. VW has that market because they are the only ones in the US. Alot of VW TDI owners are on there second VW and those that have trucks but them with a diesel.

I myself would trade err perhaps keep my IMA insight and I it was sold a diesel powered Insight. Though I wish the Insight had more airbags.

 

[Guest]

Hi Cakely:

___I have read more then a few posts in the TDI Club forums recently when looking up Oil FAQ’s for a friend that just purchased a Jetta TDI for his wife … Those guys are the most rabid Diesel supporters over and above any Hybrid and std. ICE propulsion fans I have ever seen! This includes our Insight’s, Prius’, HCH’s, Ford Trucks, Focus’, Vette’s, WRX’s, NSX’s, and whatever else I can think of. I only wish we had the opportunity to do the same

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:184oxpcy][email protected][/email:184oxpcy]

 

[james]

"...the more I realize that the primary reasons for my high freeway mpg... 3) small, efficient engine."

But you wouldn't really be able to have that small efficient engine if you didn't have the IMA or something to help with acceleration - or at any rate, we'd have even more complaints about sluggish performance from Xcel than we do now

 

[Billy]

Hi James; I must disagree to a small extent......my point was that with the reduced weight in my "theorectical car", accerleration would be quite sufficient with the current engine. For example, my crx only had 58 horsepower, but I was plenty happy with it's performance....billy

 

[Holicow]

Billy, your CRX hp/weight is even worse than the Insight. I think what you enjoyed with that car is the more drivable gear ratios....

More closely spaced gears would make a huge difference. But I wouldn't want to give up the tall top gear.

 

[Guest]

Hi James:

___Cruise on down the highway in lean burn using our 5-speed. Now turn on your A/C. So much for our Insight’s fuel economy or what little acceleration performance we had … That 2.2 L Diesel Honda developed for the European Accord shrunk to match an Insight won’t have its mileage destroyed w/ A/C nor when climbing nearly as much as it does our current Hyper efficient ICE. I am very happy with the mileage performance of our Insight’s but the lack of acceleration scares me sometimes.

___I am still amazed every time I hear about those TDI guys getting 50 + mpg traveling at 80 mph with all the toys. I wouldn’t want neither the name plate nor its current emissions (TLEV?) of course but place the Honda iCDTi design inside of our Insight’s and I would be all over it! An Insight would be nice but better yet, a Formula Red Civic Si w/ 16” 5 spoke alloys (w/ small width-high pressure tires), leather, heated seats and mirrors, power everything including a sun roof, and that as yet to be built 1.0 - 1.3 L iCDTi Diesel as its sole propulsion. 80 - 100 mpg, 0 - 60 in < 10 seconds, and < $21,000 hopefully. They would have to drop the weight of the Si by ~ 800 #’s to get any kind of performance out of her however

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:1tipxgo9][email protected][/email:1tipxgo9]

 

[b1shmu63]

The "average" North American car accellerates from 0 to 60 in 10.3 seconds which means roughly 50 percent of cars are slower than the Insight and 50 percent are faster than the Insight. The same "average' car gets 20.7 MPG.

http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section ... ewsid=5578

 

[Rick Reece]

If you want to see what it is like turn off the IMA. Yes you will still have the weight but you could call it a passenger for the test. The IMA is needed if you drive in hilly terrain, otherwise you would have to downshift much more often. Have fun, RIck

 

[Holicow]

My wish list? Hmmm....

1. World peace.
2. End to hunger
3. Win lottery
4. My kids to listen the first time.
5. Car that doesn't throw away generated energy.

Wait!! I already have #5!! Cool! Now to work on the first three. I gave up on #4 a long time ago.

 

[Guillermo]

Making the car 200 lbs lighter will not make a noticeable improvement in highway few efficiency because of the constant speed driving. But yes it would help in city traffic because it takes less energy to accelerate.

 

[Mitch]

Insight vs. CRX HF gearing

Holicow, the CRX HF had widely-spaced, very tall gearing, just like the Insight. Honda started this practice with their fuel economy champions starting with the '83 Civic FE, and continued on with the '84 CRX 1.3, '85-'91 CRX HF, '92-'95 Civic VX, and '96+ Civic Hx. My '84 CRX 1.3, with original engine/tranny, had aprox. 28.5 mph/1K rpm in 5th gear, which is virtually identical to the Insight.

 

[james]

"...turn on your A/C. So much for our Insight’s fuel economy..."

Perhaps so, but about the only time I've used the A/C was on the trip back from Las Vegas, where I picked it up.

Around here, we've got 7 or eight months when it's never hot enough to want A/C. Of the remaining months, before about 10 AM and after 8 or 9 PM, it's not needed. And of the roughly 1/6 of the time left, when I might possibly want A/C, either the trip's too short to cool down at all, or I'm headed into the mountains.

So the bottom line is, I'd be hauling around a bigger engine to run the A/C that I virtually never use...

 

[dan]

Hi Folks-

james-I am impressed with your ability to survive without A/C. (When I pass through your area I often like to use mine) I am surprised about your comments about the engine being more than adequate. Even if you do not use it for the A/C then surely you must find it helpful in the Sierra after your battery is depleted? I don’t think the 50# or so saved by dumping the A/C would help a lot in the mountains. As Rick Reece mentioned even if you drop the whole IMA but add a passenger you are still back to where you started weight wise.

I think the proposals you folks have put forth are all good ones for your specific circumstances but each of them would make the Insight even more of a “niche-market” car than it already is. I am not surprised that Honda does not put out more varieties of Insight than they do given how few they sell.

Ah well…I have to remind myself we are talking “wish list” here.

 

[Guest]

Hi All:

___I might add a thing or two here … Sound insulation for lower NVH, and longer suspension travel … Maybe a bit less suspension performance tuning or whatever you want to call it for a more comfortable ride … Taller sidewall tires that weigh the same as our 14’s w/ RE92’s clad would probably help here as well? Only if they can reduce our already LRR that the RE92’s provide however

___I still think a Honda designed 1.0 - 1.3 L iCDTi would do the trick on the performance front. If any of you have ever had to back in your Insight’s up a sloped driveway, you will see and feel the lack of performance in that regard as well

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:3gmd6zd3][email protected][/email:3gmd6zd3]

 

[james]

Dan, I'm not saying that I wouldn't like more performance. In fact, I was thinking just this morning that there's a good bit of space in the Insight's engine compartment, particularly between the engine & firewall. Now suppose Honda were to take the basic engine and add three more cylinders, making a 2 liter V6?

There are two roads in the Sierra that I drive frequently. US 50 over Spooner Summit is 4 lanes, about 2500 ft climb, with 50 MPH speed limit that no one follows . I can hold around the average traffic speed in 3rd. The other is Mt. Rose Highway, which is about 4500 ft of 2-lane with curves. I can do a pretty decent speed around them, on the very rare occasions that I'm not held to 25 MPH or so by a parade of flatlanders. The Insight may not be my old Austin-Healey, but I've never yet become a traffic obstacle

As for A/C, if I were doing long drives I might want it. As it is, the longest I do regularly is the 15 miles or so from my place to the lab, and that's just barely long enough for the A/C to get the car cooled down, so I figure why bother?

Though in really hot weather I use the old evaporative cooler trick before I get in: take a spray bottle of water and squirt steering wheel & seat.

 

[b1shmu63]

Leather seats, Electric supercharger, second battery system with solar charging, pneumatic rear suspension adjusters, automatic hot air mod with vacuum bottle preheating. larger radio area with room for moving map or MP3 CD changer,MPG sensitive cruise control, upright IMA pack from Civic to increase storage space, speed/need responsive electric steering. Sounds like I've got some work to do.

 

[Guest]

Hi B1shmu63:

___Your not kidding in regards to your wish list and some great ideas! Don’t forget that you need heat for those leather seats + multiple adjustments including seat height, head rest, lumbar, and seat angle

___The automatic warm air mod would be an excellent idea! GM or Ford had an actual powered intake opening to adjust for temperature and aerodynamics on their 73 - 80 mpg PNGV Diesel Hybrid’s. With that, Honda might as well make the entire automobile aerodynamically adaptive when you really hit a head wind in below freezing temperatures … Bottle that motor up as if you were preserving tomatoes would be a start

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:7597y72a][email protected][/email:7597y72a]