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Discussion Starter #1
I found a way to get OEM Honda cats for my 2005 MT at about half dealer price, but was told that at 140,000miles it's a good idea to get new sensors as well.
How many are there?--I counted 3. And what are the OEM parts numbers? Scott mentioned that only NTK and Denso can be relied upon to work out of the box, so that's what I want to shop for.

Want to mention again that I got the new springs and GAZ shocks from Scott, and the car has never handled better or been more comfortable. Thanks Scott.
 

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Right, three on the 2005.

I can't remember the correct part numbers, but if you search in the "Search Community" line above using "Catalytic Sensors" you will get a number of related threads from the archives. They aren't cheap even from Amazon.

I think, if it were me and given the costs, I would install my old sensors and wait for a trouble code to arrive. They can last quite a long time unless they are contaminated with too many additives, or to rich a mixture.

Of course, since you are replacing the catalytics, they may code right away.
 

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That is correct, there are three O2 sensors on model year 2002 -2006 cars

For 2002-2006 5MT Insights built for the US and Canada:

Honda part numbers:
O2 Sensor 1: 36531-PHM-A21
O2 Sensor 2 & 3: 06365-PHM-A20

The service manual very explicitly states that Oxygen sensors 2 & 3 must be replaced at the same time. That is why Honda sells them as a kit.

The OEM for the O2 Sensor 1 appears to be Denso. It most closely matches the look of the OEM part. I haven't yet had occasion to compare sensors 2 and 3, but it would seem logical that they are also Denso OEM.

Denso part numbers:
O2 Sensor 1: Denso 234-9013
O2 Sensor 2: Denso 234-4955
O2 Sensor 3: Denso 234-4954

Back in late July, I installed an aftermarket Denso 234-9013, forward O2 sensor in my 2006 Insight, So far, over the last 2000 miles, it seems to be working fine.

NTK part numbers:
O2 Sensor 1: NTK 24660
O2 Sensor 2: NTK 24429
O2 Sensor 3: NTK 24430

I currently have an NTK 24660 O2 sensor installed in my 2005 Insight. While it has worked for the past 10,000 miles, I have noticed a herky-jerky stumbling problem while in lean-burn at wider throttle openings (greater than 25%). It's not always present, but it seems to happen more often than not. I have not yet had time to troubleshoot the issue. For now at least, I'd recommend going with the Denso ones.

Remember that if you are replacing sensors 2 or 3 you need to replace both sensors 2 and 3. The Honda service manual is quite clear on this point.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Right, three on the 2005.

I can't remember the correct part numbers, but if you search in the "Search Community" line above using "Catalytic Sensors" you will get a number of related threads from the archives. They aren't cheap even from Amazon.

I think, if it were me and given the costs, I would install my old sensors and wait for a trouble code to arrive. They can last quite a long time unless they are contaminated with too many additives, or to rich a mixture.

Of course, since you are replacing the catalytics, they may code right away.
Hey Jim,
Yep that's what I've heard elsewhere, about coding, so I'm gonna just bite the bullet and do them all now. Especially the 3rd one which is such a bear to get at the plug end under the driver's seat. Found that out when I did the anti-fouling extenders!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
That is correct, there are three O2 sensors on model year 2002 -2006 cars

For 2002-2006 5MT Insights:

Honda part numbers:
O2 Sensor 1: 36531-PHM-A21
O2 Sensor 2 & 3: 06365-PHM-A20

The service manual very explicitly states that Oxygen sensors 2 & 3 must be replaced at the same time. That is why Honda sells them as a kit.

The OEM for the O2 Sensor 1 appears to be Denso. It most closely matches the look of the OEM part. I haven't yet had occasion to compare sensors 2 and 3, but it would seem logical that they are also Denso OEM.

Denso part numbers:
O2 Sensor 1: Denso 234-9013
O2 Sensor 2: Denso 234-4955
O2 Sensor 3: Denso 234-4954

Back in late July, I installed an aftermarket Denso 234-9013, forward O2 sensor in my 2006 Insight, So far, over the last 2000 miles, it seems to be working fine.

NTK part numbers:
O2 Sensor 1: NTK 24660
O2 Sensor 2: NTK 24429
O2 Sensor 3: NTK 24430

I currently have an NTK 24660 O2 sensor installed in my 2005 Insight. While it has worked for the past 10,000 miles, I have noticed a herky-jerky stumbling problem while in lean-burn at wider throttle openings (greater than 25%). It's not always present, but it seems to happen more often than not. I have not yet had time to troubleshoot the issue. For now at least, I'd recommend going with the Denso ones.

Remember that if you are replacing sensors 2 or 3 you need to replace both sensors 2 and 3. The Honda service manual is quite clear on this point.
Thanks Bull Dog (always makes me think of the Beatle's song...) for all this info. The numbers are a big assist as the internet has so many conflicting manufacturers numbers and then they all change again depending of the on-line store you buy them from. I think I'm leaning toward the Denso's as they say they are the OE manufacturer for Honda and, if I remember correctly, they are all less than $150 each on Amazon, but I'd have to look again. Didn't know that numbers 2 and 3 came as a kit. I'll be on the look out for that now.
Thanks again.
 

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Thanks Bull Dog (always makes me think of the Beatle's song...) for all this info. The numbers are a big assist as the internet has so many conflicting manufacturers numbers and then they all change again depending of the on-line store you buy them from. I think I'm leaning toward the Denso's as they say they are the OE manufacturer for Honda and, if I remember correctly, they are all less than $150 each on Amazon, but I'd have to look again. Didn't know that numbers 2 and 3 came as a kit. I'll be on the look out for that now.
Thanks again.
I would stick with Denso for the late 2001-2006 4-wire LAF (upstream) sensor for the MT. There is a Denso module inside my 04 and 06 ECUs which interface to the LAF sensor. The advice to go NTK I believe is intended for 00-early/mid 01 which uses a 5 wire sensor that has a different interface than the later sensors.
 

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Just a reminder this is an international membership site..
It's important to clarify what markets we might be talking about.

UK/EU/JDM/AUS cars do not have three O2 sensors.
They only have two for any year.

1) Primary pre cat LAF WideBand
2) Secondary post cat
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I would stick with Denso for the late 2001-2006 4-wire LAF (upstream) sensor for the MT. There is a Denso module inside my 04 and 06 ECUs which interface to the LAF sensor. The advice to go NTK I believe is intended for 00-early/mid 01 which uses a 5 wire sensor that has a different interface than the later sensors.
Hi Sean, Good to know. I've read much confusion here re the number of wires and which will work. Do you have an online store you recommend to buy the 3 sensors I need?
Thanks,
Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Just a reminder this is an international membership site..
It's important to clarify what markets we might be talking about.

UK/EU/JDM/AUS cars do not have three O2 sensors.
They only have two for any year.

1) Primary pre cat LAF WideBand
2) Secondary post cat
Hey Peter,
How is it that the Euro models avoided that 3rd O2 sensor. I thought it was just for us here in California, but learned that all the Insights were shipped to the states with CARB compliant exhausts (unless I've been misinformed) so even if ordering a replacement cat in Mississippi, for instance, you would get from Honda the same set up used in my state. Interesting that Europe is different.
 

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Hey Peter,
How is it that the Euro models avoided that 3rd O2 sensor.
We don't have an extra cat in the downpipe like you do, only under the car.
 

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Hi Sean, Good to know. I've read much confusion here re the number of wires and which will work. Do you have an online store you recommend to buy the 3 sensors I need?
Thanks,
Mark
I bought my Denso upstream sensor (aka LAF sensor) for my 2004 MT from Amazon:

RockAuto.com lists O2 sensors and indicates (in many cases) whether they are for the MT or CVT.

I can't add more about the downstream sensors as I am chasing an MPG problem that may be related to oil ingestion. (Note that many sites warn you to fix underlying issues before replacing the sensors lest the new sensors get contaminated.)
 

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I found a way to get OEM Honda cats for my 2005 MT at about half dealer price, but was told that at 140,000miles it's a good idea to get new sensors as well.
How many are there?--I counted 3. And what are the OEM parts numbers? Scott mentioned that only NTK and Denso can be relied upon to work out of the box, so that's what I want to shop for.

Want to mention again that I got the new springs and GAZ shocks from Scott, and the car has never handled better or been more comfortable. Thanks Scott.
How do u know for sure it's your cats going bad? Have you live data them and temp probed them? I'll Just be that one guy who asks lol 😂
 

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Discussion Starter #16
So I think the big question is: where can we get those cats at 1/2 the MSRP price?
I found them by typing in the OE part number on Google and that led to an Amazon page, believe it or not. Both are available there for $900 and $1100 roughly, though for whatever reason, and I even talked with Amazon twice about it, they wouldn't ship to California, even though they are CARB compliant California cats! So I found a way around that and hope to have them in a few weeks. I wonder if the problem is that they are fair traded in California so the price, which undercuts dealers by more than half, is a problem for them. Don't know.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
How do u know for sure it's your cats going bad? Have you live data them and temp probed them? I'll Just be that one guy who asks lol 😂
I had diagnostics done on every system that affects mpg. O2 sensors, Egr system, batteries, plugs, wiring, valves, and all are perfect. Three mechanics have told me that only leaves cats, which have been throwing their dreaded code more and more frequently. I've ordered new ones and all 3 sensors and if that doesn't fix it, you guys will be the first to hear about it!:eek:
 

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I found them by typing in the OE part number on Google and that led to an Amazon page, believe it or not. Both are available there for $900 and $1100 roughly, though for whatever reason, and I even talked with Amazon twice about it, they wouldn't ship to California, even though they are CARB compliant California cats! So I found a way around that and hope to have them in a few weeks. I wonder if the problem is that they are fair traded in California so the price, which undercuts dealers by more than half, is a problem for them. Don't know.
Hmm ... good price if they are OEM.
 

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Discussion Starter #19

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Ok, decided to pick up one of the main cats too. This is the one giving me trouble. Sounds like you did the extender bung for a while until it didn't work any longer.
 
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