Honda Insight Forum banner

1 - 20 of 53 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi all!

Well, my dad finally needed the space in his driveway and I have fixed all the problems in my wife's 2001 Prius so for Father's day he gave me is 2000 Insight.

He was probably one of the first buyers, put 165k miles on the car, and really hasn't been driving it for a number of years. So we fired it up (he keeps the 12v on a trickle charger), checked the oil, and I drove it home.

Some issues:
1) Dirty (fixed with a good car washing)
2) Maint Reqd service light on
3) When it's been sitting awhile the IMA battery goes "dead". The car starts with the manual starter, then the 12v battery light is on. Let it run for a minute, shut it down, start it up, and the IMA can crank the engine.
4) The HV battery slowly charges to about 60% of the bars then hops to almost 90% of the bars.
5) IMA assist and regen both work. So the battery isn't total toast. I think Honda replaced it at around 100-110k miles on it under a handshake warranty or something (Dad's like that)
6) Dad reports that sometimes after hitting a bump or something the 12v battery light comes on and the system stops charging the 12v. Then the car has a half hour to an hour before the battery dies. If you shut down and restart the inverter usually kicks in.

7) Really weird: The gas gauge reads no bars with the gas light on. Something wrong with the sender maybe?

8) Car shudders badly in reverse. Guessing bad motor mount?

What I can see:

The car is dirty. By that I mean the engine compartment is dirty, and the screw from the battery negative to the car is corroded. I'm guessing there is a ground float somewhere which is tripping the 150v to 12v inverter.

Aside from that it runs. Current MPG is about 47, it drives fine enough on the highway (does require some downshifts since I don't want to stress the IMA battery) and I can fit in it (I'm 6'8 as is my dad).

So what should I be looking for, what are good first steps, and the like to get the gas gauge working, the inverter/charger to be stable, and how long before the HV battery goes dead without driving? I would be happy to use it as a semi-daily driver alongside my battery powered S10 pickup.

Thanks!
Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
Off topic, but your S10. Is it white with smooth Moon hubcaps?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Yep, but if you're looking for one in S. Jersey it's probably one of my friends who has one with a set of CALB lithiums. Mine is in Baltimore and has a Nissan Leaf pack under the bed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
Yep, but if you're looking for one in S. Jersey it's probably one of my friends who has one with a set of CALB lithiums. Mine is in Baltimore and has a Nissan Leaf pack under the bed.


I saw him in my Insight a month ago then! I saw it go by and saw the “chevrolectric” badge on it and was like no way, followed him and after he parked sure enough it was electric! Sad I didn’t get to talk with him about it, it looked sweet! I’d love to do an electric conversion on something some day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,195 Posts
Welcome. You should get a grid charger/discharger if you don't already have one and go through the HybridAutomotive.com three cycles of charging/discharging. You may be able to save the battery. After finishing the battery cycling, let it sit overnight and read the tap voltages according to this S Keith guide:

https://www.insightcentral.net/forums/honda-insight-forum-1st-gen-discussion/94562-question-concerning-old-battery-conditioning.html#post1061778

Report any remaining codes.

OBTW, go to quick links above and click "edit your details" to add a location. This will put your location in your avatar. I realize right now that you are in New Jersery but that info will get lost. Helps everyone, but most of all you :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Stomach: Yep, they're US Electricar S10 trucks. GM made a bunch of them with what was pretty much the test version of the EV1 drivetrain. 70kw Dolphin controllers that can take anywhere from 300v to 405v battery packs. Lithuium is great with them.

On to the Insight, I'll hook up a code reader and see what's going on in the car. The Engine fault light is not on just the IMA service one. Glad to see it's possible to read the pack voltages via a plug connector, is it possible to view the status with a Scan-X type tool connected to the CAN bus?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Correction it was a 2000. I think the car has passed emissions (MD) which just requires no ECU codes set. Currently the little check engine light is off, so that should be ok.

Anyway, what defines a "bad" battery? In the Prius if the hybrid batteries are working at all they're normally ok. I pulled that pack at 150k and replaced the cells with the Gen II cells and it's got 210k on it now with less than .2v between highest block and lowest (12 cell blocks)

Is it possible to read the cell voltages or the high/low block voltages off the Honda CAN bus? Spotting a >.3 volt difference usually means one cell is going sad.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
10,772 Posts
Is it possible to read the cell voltages or the high/low block voltages off the Honda CAN bus?
No :(

The insight G1 is not CAN bus, but old style OBDII for the relevant years.
Sadly even with an OEM Honda tool cell tap voltage is not available from the IMA computer system.
IIRC the HCH2 Civic or Accord was the first Honda IMA car with CAN bus and cell voltage tap data.

The Insight G1 computers use proprietary Honda protocols.

With a generic OBDII device you can only talk to the ECM in a basic fashion to get the minimum legally required OBDII information.

To talk to the ECM more deeply, or communicate with the other 5 systems in the car MCM, EPS, ABS, TCM, SRS you need a special code reader. Torque etc can't do it..
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,195 Posts
Anyway, what defines a "bad" battery? In the Prius if the hybrid batteries are working at all they're normally ok.
One which lights the "IMA" warning light in the bottom right corner of the dash.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Ok, just pulled the DTC codes: No codes detected, all diagnostics have passed so a green light. That's good, would pass emissions and will not pollute the Earth.

Does shudder badly in reverse, guessing that's a rear motor mount is it tough to fix?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Actually the IMA light is not on, what's on is "Maint Reqd" on the left side of the dash. Different?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,065 Posts
Does shudder badly in reverse, guessing that's a rear motor mount is it tough to fix?
$150 from the dealer, a bit less online. Access from under the car like during an oil change. 2 big bolts on the body and 4 smaller ones on the transmission though not the easiest to reach.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,065 Posts
Actually the IMA light is not on, what's on is "Maint Reqd" on the left side of the dash. Different?
Just a service reminder. To turn off

1. Press and hold the trip button until the end of step 5.
2. Turn the ignition key to the "on" position.
3. Wait for the "maintenance required" light to turn off (about 10 seconds).
4. Turn the ignition key to the "lock" position.
5. Turn the ignition key back to the "on" position.

Might take a few tries.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Oh ok, that sounds pretty simple. Worst case I pull the cluster and replace the trip button (if it's bad).

However I assume that means my IMA battery might not be toast, or at least toast enough to flag a computer error.

One thing the dad mentioned was that when the 12v battery light came on the car still have full IMA functions. It would charge, discharge, do the normal stuff. So I guess I need to figure out what trips the inverter.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,195 Posts
One thing the dad mentioned was that when the 12v battery light came on the car still have full IMA functions. It would charge, discharge, do the normal stuff. So I guess I need to figure out what trips the inverter.
This would only be case if there were an inverter failure of some sort.

The much more likely case for the 12V warning is that the Hybrid battery has stopped working. The inverters have proven very reliable.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,803 Posts
Do you see the CEL when you first turn on the key?

Sam
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,803 Posts
Check your ground straps.

Grid charge/discharge.

Get an OBDIIC&C gauge so you will be able to get specific IMA data. A "normal" scanner isn't able to read these.

Sam
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
This would only be case if there were an inverter failure of some sort.

The much more likely case for the 12V warning is that the Hybrid battery has stopped working. The inverters have proven very reliable.
Hm. Could intermittent grounds on the 12v battery trip the inverter without the rest of the IMA? I ran into a problem with my Dolphin once where the 12v inverter was tripping out, turned out the 12v battery connectors were loose and the inverter voltage pegged to max voltage (15v or so) and dropped offline.

I'll check the lights with key on at lunch.

C
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Do you see the CEL when you first turn on the key?

Sam
The yellow motor icon? Yes, it is on, goes off when car starts.

IMA and ECT (I think, upper right) also go on with key, both off at start. ABS also goes on and off with start/after a few seconds. I think the big problem is the fuel light stays on and fuel gauge is flat zero.

C
 
1 - 20 of 53 Posts
Top