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Discussion Starter #1
We have had our Insight six weeks and it has been wonderful but now I'm scared. Yesterday the Maint Reqd light came on and stayed on. I thought it might be a quirk beacause it had a dealership oil change only 2 weeks ago and so I utilized the InsightCentral instructions (the manual instructions were pitiful) to reset the light. I thought all was A-OK until driving home from work tonight.... car stalled twice (no autostop, no idle, just the oil and engine lights on) while stopped in neutral at red lights. Next the battery charge plummeted from nearly fully charged down to three bars. within about a minute. When I pulled into the home driveway, the battery was approximately one quarter recharged. What is happening?! Did I mess up reseting the Maint Reqd light? Is this a recalibration event (been reading about these, but honestly don't have any idea what they are)? Could it be something else? I'd like to drive it to work tomorrow, but need to visit a building on top of a hill? Do you think it will make the climb? Sorry for being so worried. Thank-you for any help.
 

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I'm not sure why it stalled out and that happened.

What you described sounds a lot like a recalibration event. One of the more experienced posters here could describe to you how to do the IMA reset procedure and fully recharge your battery (in your driveway in about 5 minutes) better than I can, but here's my rendition:

With the vehicle off, open the hood and remove the fuse for the IMA system (check manual, not sure of off the top of my head) then replace it, that should fully discharge the IMA pack. Then get in the car, turn it on, and in neutral rev the engine to approximately 3k rpms until you see the charge lights come up, then continue until the battery is charged. It worked like a charm for my Insight and really improved performance. Since it's a 2000 with only 22k miles, it probably wasn't driven enough and it really needs an IMA reset. Good luck!!

-Philosophy
 
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Hi Sputnik:

___MY 2000’s that haven’t had the ECU flash updates have been known to the throw a CEL because of possibly being too sensitive to whatever problem might or might not have actually occurred. If it is real, more then likely it is for an O2 sensor. A CEL is quite a different item then the SoC action that you saw although they could be related? Just not very likely is all. Have you had any of the Flashes, Parking brake, or Headlight recalls performed yet? This would be a good time to do that if none have been completed while having the CEL looked at. To save some $’s, you can have the codes read at a local Pep Boys for free. It will give you a place to start without incurring the automatic $75.00 + charge the Honda dealership is going to hit you up with anyway.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:1d05a6o4][email protected][/email:1d05a6o4]
 

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The maintenance required light is merely a mile counter. _Nothing_ of consequence will occur by merely resetting it. There is no button sequence that you pressed that can effect anything of consequence on an Insight.


The rapid fall of the IMA battery gauge is likely a recal. Nothing to worry about. See the thread:

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... 1113cad30a

for more that you probably want to know about the IMA system and recals.


Philosophy's reset procedure is a little slim on specifics. This link should help:

http://www.insightcentral.net/encyclope ... orage.html

Unless your driving a 5 spd. and accidentally stalled it there is something going on. Maybe not expensive but possible serious enough that on the next "stall" you won't be able to restart.

The old adage "You can pay for more than you get, but you always get what you pay for.", is especially true in regard to "free" diagnosis. A code is merely an indicator. Without the additional (freeze frame) data captured at the time of the code event and the experience of how to interpret this data you may end up replacing un-needed parts.

HTH! :)
 
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Hi Sputnik:

___Whoops. I see you posted as Insightful Trekker just corrected me on. Your Maintenance Required Indicator is nothing but time for an oil change since it was last reset, not a CEL. Sorry about missing that.

___The following will keep that light off for the next 7,000 or so miles but at 7,500, it will be fully lit all the time as it should be until reset again.

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... php?t=1917

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:2zcc0ocp][email protected][/email:2zcc0ocp]
 

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One recal is not a cause for panic.

Do check your 12 volt battery though.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for help, still some questions.

No longer panicked (fretted & sweated quite enough on Monday to last some time)! It does sound like a recal occured. Guess these aren't dangerous, but I cannot say it was fun. I'm still concerned about the double stall & oil/CEL lights so I'll try to schedule an appointment at the dealership tomorow. Sorry for my ignorance, but what questions should I be asking? I plan to explain what happened and definitely request that the 12-volt battery be checked. Should they be checking some other sorts of codes? Also, are the IMA reset and MCM reset different things? I might get brave and try that IMA reset this weekend.
Well, I took the insight to work and it drove fine, no scares & 59mpg w/ lots of stop/start so that's good (can't bear to leave it all lonesome in the driveway). It made it up the very big hill, but sluggishly. Also checked Owner's Link and that says the car was "fixed" for headlight and ECM recalls. I've noticed it rarely assists more than half a guage-worth...it's been so since I've had it. Is this because I'm often in lower gears? Again, thanks to all. I really appreciate the wisdom and experience this forum offers. Maybe someday I'll know enough to help out.
 

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Re: Thanks for help, still some questions.

When the engine "stalls" its a normal consequence for the oil light to come on. After all the engine isn't "running" so the oil pump isn't pumping. Same condition before starting as key on engine off.

A more technically accurate description of the CEL is an MIL (that's what the Service Manual calls it) so if your wanting to "sound" technically correct then call it an MIL (Malfunction Indicator Light). This one light indicates a fault with the fuel management system and can be several dozen different "codes". The red IMA light being on when driving will indicate an IMA system fault. And likewise the EPS (Electric Power Steering) has its own independent code system.

You need to concisely describe your symptoms and have the code diagnosed. And maybe choose to have the 12v battery tested. Repairs will be suggested based on the results of the tests.

fscotts IMA problem is the first reported of its kind in this group (and the first one of its type in the several groups I read) so maybe the 12v battery is near the end of its service life, maybe not. Anyway a "check" should be low cost and give some peace of mind <g>.

IMA & MCM resets are the _same_ thing and a recal is an "automatic" reset so performing another soon after a recal isn't necessary.

If your downshifting when going uphill then IMA assist will be less and is a better technique for extending battery life in the long term (all other factors being equal). But you _still_ :) haven't stated whether or not you drive a CVT or 5 spd. IMA behavior is different between the two.

Your helping now and will be the _BEST_ :) help with a final follow-up reply in this thread when you have "the rest of the story." <g>

HTH! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Appointment made. 12-v probably playing a role?

The insight has an appointment for this Friday, so hope it does OK meanwhile. When I described the stalling/recal the service rep asked right away if the engine light came on. Also I later opened the hood and looked at the little 12Volt battery...it had a red code for "needs distilled water", but when checked, the water level was completely full! :shock: I'll be sure to remind the dealership to test the battery. BTW, the car is a 5-spd manual transmission.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
It's been checked, but I wonder if it should have?

The insight was checked out for the stalling problem yesterday. The dealership said they have two mechanics experienced with hybrids and assigned one to mine. In a nutshell, no problems were found. The 12V showing the "needs water" color was probably a quirk since it tested fine, as did the IMA battery and the engine. Their only suggestion was to try a main brand of gasoline. Since they gave me delicious free coffee and did not charge a penny for their work, I hate to complain... but since bringing the car home, the gas milage has been hideous. :cry:
This car typically gets about 59 MPG, now it averages 45 MPG! That stinks. Maybe the cold weather and recal the car experienced after I retrieved it are playing a role? The dealership's verbal and written report never mentioned making any adjustments. Could they have tweaked something behind my back? Insights don't have carburators do they? :?:
 

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Re: It's been checked, but I wonder if it should have?

sputnik said:
<snip>
Maybe the cold weather and recal the car experienced after I retrieved it are playing a role? The dealership's verbal and written report never mentioned making any adjustments. Could they have tweaked something behind my back? Insights don't have carburators do they?
Cold weather is probably the culprit. Tried the 6x17" cardboard mod yet? :idea:

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... 1854b5a066

No they don't have carburators. But they may have "reflashed" the PCM, which is a good thing.

Since your a newbie Insight driver give yourself some more time in learning to drive in the high MPG style _before_ looking for some other cause. :)

HTH! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
little sputnik chats

I am so sorry if I sounded ungrateful to the Honda dealership :oops: The were very kind, checking out everything applicable and didn't charge a penny for their work. My only comment should have been "Thank-you".
The noticable drop in MPG might possibly be due to cold weather. I'm pretty sure that my newbie driving is no goofier now than it has been all along. The cardboard mod sounds intriguing, but I think I should wait. I just don't feel ready to be wedging leftover political placards around the ac condenser. The first few weeks with a new Insight are a little like bringing home a baby...every new burp and hiccup cause for quick action and concerned calls to the doc. :D Eventually a more reasonable rountine comes about.
Looks like it's time to lay low, lighten up, just drive the car and enjoy it. Something can be learned from that, hopefully. Whatever isn't, is probably right here, in this excellent forum.

Speaking of...please tell me what a PCM is and what happens when it's "reflashed".

Thank-you for your patience and helpful advice. It's much appreciated.
 

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Re: little sputnik chats

sputnik said:
I am so sorry if I sounded ungrateful to the Honda dealership :oops: The were very kind, checking out everything applicable and didn't charge a penny for their work. My only comment should have been "Thank-you".

<snip>

Speaking of...please tell me what a PCM is and what happens when it's "reflashed".

Thank-you for your patience and helpful advice. It's much appreciated.

You didn't sound ungrateful to me. :) Made me want to try their java though. :!:

PCM = Powertrain Control Module = ICE (Internal combustion engine) Computer.

not to be confused with the MCM (IMA "computer") and BCM (144v battery "computer")

A "reflash" for automotive computers that are flash capable is simply a programming "update". The extent of the update varies widely with the specific PCM and its hardware. AFAIK with almost all PCM's its much more limited than what we commonly think of in desktop computer terms.

HTH! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
my car is in the hybrid hospital

It's been a rough week for the "little green hornet" and now it is in the hybrid hospital. The car would not start 2x (instrument panel lit but no ignition), finally starting on the third try. Later it stalled twice. Next day it stalled 4 times on the way to work. There was some sort of breakfast event at our local convention center w/ lots of pedestrians and jaywalkers, some who laughed directly at the poor thing as it struggled to start. Very embarrassing. :oops:

The stalls typically happen when the car is stopped in AIS, green light flashing along, then it goes out and the oil and regular battery light come on and the car is powerless.

The dealership has been in contact w/ three engineers at the Honda Tech Line. The car has reproduced the stalls for the mechanics and they are relaying computer info of some sort to these engineers. The dealership may be preparing me for a big repair bill since they mentioned this is taking a lot of time and asked if I had an extended warranty ("nope"). It's alright, I just want my insight healthy again...been driving the Ford Focus wagon and it's used 1/3 tank gas in four days! :cry:

Here is what I know so far: They are 95% the problem is coming from the ECM, not exactly where. There was some talk of the AIS not being managed properly by the IMA and going to 12V instead, but I do not know what all that means. They hope to run one more post-stall set of diagnostics on Monday.

If there are any suggestions on questions that I should be asking on Monday, I would be very grateful. Is the ECM = PCM? Where is the ECM physically located...up front or in the back w/ the big batteries? Also, what controls AIS?

Thanks very much for your help in sorting thru this.
 

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Kathleen,
Did the dealership find out what was wrong with your car? What year is the car? I am curious as I have had my second recalibration in about 8 days on my 2000. My 12V battery is original and I'm hoping that swapping it to a new one will help somewhat.
I am curious as to the diagnosis of your car.
Thanks,
Robert
Also down south.
Spartanburg, SC
 

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Discussion Starter #17
My car is a year 2000. It really only had the one recal (sure scared me though since I'd never seen one before) and the 12V tested fine. The main symptom was stalling while in autostop. The stalling in AIS became almost relentless and since it occured for the mechanics, they retrieved data right as it happened.

As much as I could understand from the wise, old, British mechanic who took my car under his wing , there really weren't definitive DTCs. Diagnostic data indicated the BCM-MCM may have had anomalies, which in turn could have caused trouble for the IMA. The IMA battery and these command modules were replaced by Honda and my insight came home three days ago. So far, so good and I'm hopeful. Very glad to have it back.

Wish I knew more about the workings of the insight but I'm an automotive newbie (burned my finger on battery acid yesterday and was all proud that I added washer fluid by myself)! I do hope you solve the more frequent recalibration issue.

Regards,
Kathleen

BTW, nice color on that insight of yours.
 

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BTW, nice color on that insight of yours
Thanks Kathleen,
I like the color of yours too. I had never seen one this color until I went to look at (and buy) it last month. I'm on my third week and put about 500-550 miles a week on it. Looks like you did better than I on mileage. Mine had 32K when I got it, but I'm tickled to be getting around 70mpg on my commute. The color, for me, took a little getting used to but I like having the only one on my block...OK in town for that matter.

Boy it sure looks like everybody knows all the acronyms but me. I didn't get an owners manual with my car, so if they are listed there it won't help until I get one. I have been able to find a bunch of definitions of the acronyms, but every time I turn around there's another one I don't know. Like DTC, AIS, MCM? At least I know the BCM
Robert
 

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Discussion Starter #19
The InsightCentral Knowlege Base has a category "Understanding your insight" and a subcategory called "Terms & Abbreviations" which identifies many acronyms. Also the InsightCentral Encyclopedia has some great pictures of different components in the car along with their corresponding acronyms. And several posters have graciously explained various terms.

Even with these helpful resources, I still found myself regularly asking the mechanic last week, "ah, What's that?", as he is fluent in "Insightian", and I am still learning.

Hope I may be of help w/ a few of your questions:
AIS = Auto Idle Stop (= autostop)
DTC= Diagnostic Trouble Code (electronic data specific to some problem in the car)
MCM= Motor Control Module (the computer for the IMA. It sits right next to the BCM.)

Best wishes,
 

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Wonder of wonders, after an unsuccessful repair at my local Honda dealer, I go online here and discover this new owner's car doing exactly what my car is doing!

It has died at the intersection six times in the last two days. Five of the six stalls occurred in auto stop; the other one occurred when I had it in gear and the engine running. I had difficulty getting the car re-started all six times. I thought it was my level of panic, but it may be something else.

Like the new Citrus owner, I took it to the dealership. They put 20 miles on it trying to get it to reproduce the stall. It won't. I had them change the oil and filter and I'm back on the road again.

I asked about the computer - no codes tripped. I asked about the 12-volt battery; they say it's fine. They do say that sometimes with these hybrids, a fault occurs and the error codes do not light up.

The only other possibility mentioned was a starter possibly going out. Any advice would be mucho appreciated.

Jennie in Hot Springs
 
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