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Discussion Starter #1
After a while I've begun to notice a noise from the top edge of the drivers door window. It usually happens at speed and I thought at first it might be an air leak but it does it only sometimes.

Then I noticed it does it mostly on rough roads and so I'm thinking it's actually the window glass moving slightly (or the frame moving slightly) so that the textured seal is brushing against the glass and making a noise...

Anybody heard the same thing?
 

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Yes, I have that same noise. A little rattle sound coming from the top edge of the drivers door near my head. If I apply pressure to the rubber molding between the headliner and the door opening I can make it stop. So, I was thinking that it is something just behind that molding that is rattling - maybe related to the side-curtain airbag?
 

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Haven't noticed it yet on mine - but it does sounds like some loose moulding or something. If you can't figure out the exact thing making noise or how to stop it, the dealer should be able/willing to correct it.
 

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Noticed it too... coming from both the driver and front passenger door. I had figured it was my visors making it... but now that others have heard it, I will investigate more.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I've put in a written complaint to the dealer. If several people have it then it's a recall for a defective design.

I also complained about the forced charging issue when climbing hills as that is actually a safety issue as my car slowed without giving the tailgaters behind me an indication. The IMA battery management software has a bug in it.

While I was at it I also complained about some dodgy work on the paint sealant that they applied. In one spot there's a smear in it where they didn't polish it properly before it cured and they got some on the roof gutter seals where it shouldn't have been applied to matt plastics.

The initial feel-good factor of a new car has worn off and now it's time to get tough with the dealer who has sold me a poorly finished car with a software defect.

I'm not sure what to expect... I've only bought used cars before but the last one was an "Approved Used" car from a Honda dealer and there were some issues with that car (one safety recall and some individual problems) but they bent over backwards to fix everything and were generally great. For a used car, I thought that was impressive. A couple of years later, someone cracked my number plate by reversing into it and I went to the dealer to ask about a new plate and they made a new one up on the spot for free.
 

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i have noise coming from the drivers side door aswell, i thought mine was coming from the middle height of the door where the door clamps to the car near the handle. I will double check today.

Vincent
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I had a good look at the seals yesterday and couldn't see anything obviously out of place on the top edge. What I have noticed is that the outside bottom seal is badly fitting.

It's in two parts: A inner part that grips the glass as it goes into the door and an outer plastic trim part that has a rubber wiper that is supposed to overlap the inner grip so that water running down the window is deflected outside the door.

It doesn't... the outer part has bowed outwards (from not being actually attached to anything along the body edge next to the glass) and so there's a gaping hole all along the wiper edge and the inner glass grip. So all the water running down the glass will find its way inside the door. If this door is built like the Accord ones, there is a glued moisture membrane that protects the inner door panel and loudspeaker but if that membrane isn't sealed perfectly then with all that water / moisture going inside the door, it's gonna cause problems in a short time.

Looking at the other doors, they all suffer from varying degrees of the same problem, either because the outer trim has bowed outwards or because they were too lazy to design cut-out mouldings for glass dividers. You can see this on lower edge of the rear quarter glass to moving rear window section. The outer trim wiper has no cut-out profile in the wiper rubber so the whole trim is pushed out and away from the inner grip, leaving a gap in the seal all along the rear quarter window.

If cost was that much of an issue, they should have cut features from the car rather than quality... I'd rather have no iPod integration but windows that seal properly and don't make noise.

The dealer has booked my car in on Monday to look at the window noise issue and the forced charging issue.
 

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Please post what they say about the forced charge going uphill. I too believe that it is a design flaw.
 

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No issues like that hear with the window. I notice that when it rains the water some how hits the window or surrounding trim and sounds like hail.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Well, I took it in and they had a look at it...

As for the noisy window, they said they adjusted the frame and on the way home it didn't make any noise but it was a short trip on fairly smooth roads so it won't be until I get a chance to run on some twisty rough stuff that I'll find out if they really fixed it.

Looking at ALL the other cars in the dealer showroom, they ALL had the same outer trim gaps on the lower window edges, some more than others but the Insight is no different from a brand new Accord or Jazz or CRV so I guess the outer part is really just trim and not part of the waterproofing of the doors these days.

They plugged the car into their analyser and said the IMA was normal. I asked to see the technician and explained what had happened with the forced charging. He had checked that there are no recalls / updates issued yet and that there was nothing "wrong" with it.

I explained the most recent discovery I'd had... I discovered that on very steep hills (I tried climbing a 16% grade with 4 people on board) that if you're climbing a hill in D (ECON on) and you floor it (or at least 90% throttle), it stops force charging and just sits at zero. But the problem is that then you start to accelerate up the hill too much (it was twisty and a 50 limit) so you have to back off the throttle to maybe 70% and then it starts force charging again which causes a power drain that slows you down so you go back to 90-100% and you speed up... a very annoying oscillation.

I also told him about the when it does it on the local M25 Reigate Hill (so he can go try it himself) and said that while the battery management may be functioning "normally" (i.e. as programmed) the programming is wrong and needs to be amended to stop this annoying (and at times dangerous) behaviour that causes the car to oscillate its speed with no indication to the 10 foot tailgaters that follow you everywhere here. I pointed out that it's also illogical behaviour for a car that is programmed to conserve energy.

He said he'd escalate it to Honda (UK) and see what they said. I'd already sent them an e-mail three days ago through their owners feedback page of the main web site (no reply as of yet).

One piece of good news is that I asked him about firmware updates and he said if one is issued by Honda, it's easy for him to download an update to the car through the diagnostic computer.

They had a fully loaded black Insight ES-T in the showroom. This car had everything on it... including a £20,890 (~$33,400) price tag :loco:
 

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One piece of good news is that I asked him about firmware updates and he said if one is issued by Honda, it's easy for him to download an update to the car through the diagnostic computer.
I found that part in the service manual. It says to use a parallel battery during the process to maintain power, don't use a charger. It is supposed to take about 15 min to reprogram (if everything works correctly). The hood has to be kept up during the process also as the PCM gets really hot and the process will fail if it over heats. Not something I'd try myself even if I had the tools, at least not while it is under warranty. I wonder how long until the first update comes out?

P.S. Just got the Electrical Manual today. It isn't the fold-out type pages. I'll have to give it a quick read tonight for any gems.
 

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Noisy door - problem source finally located

As expected the source for the sound from somewhere near the driver window is the black plastic cover improperly fixed on the rear upper end of the door frame. I'm familiar with that type of "aerodynamic" problems (years ago I had a similar problem with the chrome metal frame of my Volvo's 760 windscreen; from a certain speed upwards it triggered the windscreen to vibrate and to "sing" with a high and loud tone).

The Insight's door cover leaves a small slit between the relatively sharp front edge of the cover and the driver window's surface; also the cover is only loosely tightened. Here the airflow at speeds greater than 140 km/h (95 mph) triggers the cover to vibrate. To test it simply cover the slit with some tape and you will hear - nothing.

As soon as I have a permanent solution I will let you know.

:):):)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I've been off the air a long time but here's a catch-up...

The driver's door window stayed fixed :). No scratching sounds.

The car has been back to the dealer twice (and is scheduled to go back again soon) for a bunch of other rattling problems :mad:.

During the last few months the dash has started to rattle like mad on anything but the smoothest road (hell, the engine vibration sometimes sets it off). It's something inside the corners just by the air vents. If you push on the dash (maybe 5kg force) just under the vent, the noise stops. It does it in both the driver and passenger corner (great, I get it in stereo). The passenger window seal was also defective with air leakage noise at around 70mph or on a windy day.

On their first attempt they put a load of glue in the dash which made the car stink for a week but had no effect on the rattles! They also said it would have to come back for a new window seal when they got the part in.

When the car went back to get the new window seal put in they had another go at the dash. This time they said they found something loose on the passenger side. The window stopped making the air leakage sound (but started making the same scratching noise as the drivers window did :mad:). The passenger side dash corner has been quiet for a few weeks now :).

So, week after next it's booked in for them to have another go at the driver side dash (before I take a hammer to it) and to do the same "adjustment" to the passenger window as they previously did on the drivers window.

At least they aren't complaining about doing the work. The woman on the desk just sighs when she hears it's me on the phone again.

There's a phrase in Yorkshire that goes "buying cheap costs you dear" and this applies to manufacturers too. It wasn't a cheap car but Honda are paying dearly for not having spent more on the interior build quality.

Apart from these problems though, the car is doing what it's supposed to. It's cheap to run, comfortable for long trips (we've been to Normandy in France in it and I've had to drive 130 miles a day to work for a month in it).

Oh, yeah... France... You have to have a spare light bulb set. I discovered that the Insight has a new type of headlight bulb that you can't buy in regular motor shops and a spare bulb from the dealer was £12!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Final update on this issue...

I give up. :mad:

It went back in and they kept it for a week and claimed to have taken the whole dash to bits and so on. End result was that it still rattles in the driver corner. A bit less than before but not cured by any means. The passenger door glass still makes the scratching noise.

I have to conclude that it's just down to poor design and the hard plastics.

On the good side, I took it in today for the first AB service (odd how the service computer sudenly dropped from 220 miles to service to 25 miles "overdue" in the space of a 65 mile trip to work :rolleyes: )

The nearly new (5k on the clock) Civic Type S (1.4 manual) was my courtesy car for the day and was an eye-opener... Even cheaper plastics - The dash looked like a disposable airline food tray and the whole thing rattled uncontrollably over rough roads! Can't see how those guys on Civinfo could have the gall to come on here and say the I2 interior was poor!

The Civic ride was a little softer than the I2 (but no more so than if I'd just let the I2 tyres down from 33psi to 30 psi).

Hard suspension seems to be in vogue these days... My dad just bought a new Kia Ceed and that has pretty rock hard suspension too. He found it a real jolt after his old Rover with the boat-like suspension.
 

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Outtasight

I posted this info under the "Rattles" thread. It may apply to your dash rattle.

I have done work locating rattles in my Insight II. First, I located the source of an annoying dash rattle on the driver side of the dash. The rattle only occurred in cold weather. The source of the rattle was a small plastic panel on the side of the dash that abuts the driver door. Open the driver door and look at the side of the dash. There is a small plastic plate in the side of the dash that is smaller than your hand and is close to the door opening weather stripping. This panel in my car is loose fitting and will easily rattle. I fixed this one by sticking a small piece of gray adhesive backed foam on the panel. The foam compresses slightly when the door is closed as there is only a small gap between the door and the dash when the door is closed. The slight pressure exerted by the foam fixed the rattle.
 

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My windows rattle when going over a bump if I have them open. It's a bit disheartening to hear them bouncing around when I've rode around in some of the cheapest POS cars that never did the same thing. No rattles other than that, so far.

Blah, this belongs in the Rattles thread. =|
 
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