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Discussion Starter #1
I've noticed a slight exhaust leak from under the Insight for awhile now. It got much worst today, so I crawled underneath and this is what I found.

Click here for the Really big version

That's right, it's leaking around that crack on weld from the pipe to front of the body of the cat. When the engine twists in it's mounts, the crack opens up more and becomes louder. So I have these questions.

1. Has this happened to anyone else?

2. It is even worth trying to get Honda to replace it under the Emissions control warranty?

3. Can it be welded up? Will such a repair last?

4. See the Buy/Sell section.

A new replacement from Majestic is $560 plus shipping. Cheap compared to the main cat, but still a lot of money.

Due to precious metals and that's illegal to use a used cat without certified testing, It's almost impossible to get used cat from a scrapyard.
 

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Have it welded up and "keep on trucking". No special metal or process.

Willie :p
 

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flunkysama said:
2. It is even worth trying to get Honda to replace it under the Emissions control warranty?

3. Can it be welded up? Will such a repair last?

4. See the Buy/Sell section.

A new replacement from Majestic is $560 plus shipping. Cheap compared to the main cat, but still a lot of money.

Due to precious metals and that's illegal to use a used cat without certified testing, It's almost impossible to get used cat from a scrapyard.
Go to the Honda dealer and ask them to replace it under the Emissions control warranty. If they refuse, call up American Honda and push the issue. If that fails, then weld it up, as already mentioned in this thread. Where is the "Buy/Sell section"? I happen to have my good '00 NOX cat, with under 10K miles on it, sitting on the shelf in my garage. I'd like to sell it.
 

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Mitch, The Buy/Sell section of the forum is on the main forum page (you have to scroll down a little). I also believe that you have to be logged in to see it. Here is the link if you still can't get to it by normal browsing:

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=11

There is already a new post in that section for wanting a CAT.

JoeCVT - Just your average CVT owner
 

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joecvt said:
Mitch, The Buy/Sell section of the forum is on the main forum page (you have to scroll down a little). I also believe that you have to be logged in to see it.
Thanks for pointing it out. I never do log on unless I'm prompted to do so when making a rare post, so thus it was invisible.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Just a follow up,
After almost removing the Cat and looking for Welders, decided to try the "free fix" option. I showed a picture the local dealer and after they put on a lift and looked at it themselves, they said it was a defect, not normal wear. So I get a new cat under the 8yr/80Kmi emissions warranty. They ordered the cat on Friday and told me it will be in on Monday. So I can pick it up tomorrow after work. I'm a happy camper, now.
 

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I just had mine replaced under the emissions control warranty. The cat. blew its contents out the exhaust and clogged the muffler. Honda replaced everything from the cat. back all under emissions control warranty. They even paid for my rental car! I've got a 2000 model with 54k miles.
 

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Just had the exact same thing happen on my car - corroded through in the same place. Mine's a 7 year old UK car, so no hope of getting it replaced under warranty (AFAIK). Tried welding it in-situ but can only access the bottom half and it's still blowing :( Looks like I need to remove it from the car to gain access to the top half.

On checking the exhaust system diagram in the 2000 Service manual, I see my car differs in that it doesn't have the initial 'three way catalytic converter' fitted. Instead, there's a regular pipe exiting the cylinder head, which has a single O2 sensor fitted and the only cat on the car is the NOX cat, with a second O2 sensor fitted at the outlet end. How come I don't have the first cat? I've had the car from new so it definitely arrived from the factory with that combination.
 

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Re:

KdF said:
On checking the exhaust system diagram in the 2000 Service manual, I see my car differs in that it doesn't have the initial 'three way catalytic converter' fitted. Instead, there's a regular pipe exiting the cylinder head, which has a single O2 sensor fitted and the only cat on the car is the NOX cat, with a second O2 sensor fitted at the outlet end. How come I don't have the first cat? I've had the car from new so it definitely arrived from the factory with that combination.

Interesting, I did not know the euro spec insight only had the one NOX cat, is this true?
 

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TWC (Three-Way Catalytic Converter Part Number)

Does anyone have the part number for this component. My car is an American version so it has two catalytic converters on it. The bolt-flange just separated from the inlet this morning. Now that there is no exhaust flowing past the two sensors in this first converter, the engine produces remarkably little power. The fuel ratio or timing must be getting modified in such a way as to give me very little power. Fred in Michigan
 

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I asume that you need the "first" cat? The one right at the cylinder head?

Willie
 

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Yes Willie, that's the one. Sorry for the double post. Well I was working in the driveway with a flashlight last night and got the broken flange off of the manifold. The hardest part was getting the electrical connectors apart for the two sensors mounted on the TWC! There is also a thin mounting "strap" securing the TWC to the engine block and that was broken as well. I don't think it was salt corrosion, more likely just mechanical vibration and the engine occasionally rocking in its mounts putting recurring stress on the converter system mountings. I've reviewed oxy-acetylene welding/brazing and am going to try reattaching the mounting flange to the TWC inlet. I've disconnected the sensor electrical connections but am going to leave the sensors mounted in the TWC during the re-welding work for fear of not getting them out or at least damaging them during removal/reinstallation. I hope they don't get too hot while "under the flame". I also twisted-off the two "studs" that pass through the springs that secure the upper converter to the lower converter but that was unavoidable. I can replace them with any old bolts once I drill-out the broken pieces that are still stuck in the welded-on nuts on the opposite side of the mating bracket. If the re-weld is successful, I'll only have to replace those two bolds, use two nuts and get a replacement "doughnut" to use in the joint between the two converter sections. Majestic Honda parts diagram seems to not sell the individual TWC but instead, bundles it with a cluster of other components with a different part number. I hope I don't have to go that route $$$. I'm waiting for the rain to stop before dragging out the torch. More later.
 

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Catalytic Converter Repair Progress

Well, I cleaned-up as much rust and scale off the broken upper flange and the first converter inlet last night with a wire brush and a file. This morning I used an oxy-acetylene torch and a 1/16" dia copper-coated steel welding rod to tack the pieces back together in 3 places before the rod I had was gone. Then I used a flux-coated bronze road to braze the fillet all the way around. Based on how the material looked and flowed, I would trust the repair in an airplane job but hope it's good enough for the car. During prep and repair I had some thoughts. First I wondered if it may not have been pressure from below that busted things in the first place. Here in Michigan we often get two ruts to drive in when it snows and the space between the ruts can become very high, very bumpy and very-very hard. I think there may have been times when the car lost traction because the undercarriage was supporting all the weight instead of the tires. A little motion and a little bumping and it's easy to see how the right hunk of ice in the right place could have thrust-up into the exhaust near the firewall and caused the support bracket to break and then put huge strain on the TWC and those three nuts/studs on the manifold. Another thing I noted during reassembly that may have lead to trouble is a potential design flaw. When I reassembled the support bracket that connects between the engine block and the lower flange of the TWC, I added about 1/4 inch of spacing washers between the block and the bracket to provide what I think is proper geometry. The bolt that's used is still long enough to provide solid strength into the block. Without the spacers, that bracket must be putting a heck of a lot of strain on those three upper nuts/studs and I would not be surprised if that alone leads to premature separation of the inlet and flange. Anyway, I'll be taking it for a test drive in a few minutes. Right now, the "flex-joint" between the TWC and the second catalytic converter is just wired together. I'll order a new "doughnut" and get a pair of nuts and bolts for use with those "pressure" springs if the weld holds up since the bolts snapped-off during removal and the I had to use a hacksaw to saw the welded-on nuts off the back side of the lower connecting flange. That was a major P.I.T.A. I know this post would have a lot more value if I prettyed it up with photos and such but anyone who attempts this repair will easily know what I'm taking about once they've spent some time on it. Should it all hold together than I saved about $1700. More later
 
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