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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All,

My CEL went on about a month ago and the gas cap trick didn't work this time. I just got delivery of an ODB-II reader and read out the codes. I have 1166 and 1167 which looks like the heater element of my O2 sensor is dead and the sensor will need replacing.

My question to you on this forum is whether I need to get a special sensor or not. My Insight is an '02 CVT and my understanding is that it doesn't do the lean burn thing like the manual Insight does when cruising at low revs. In that case, I am guessing I wouldn't need one that detects a wide mixture range, and therefore any old 4-wire sensor would work. Is that correct?

I have seen some Bosch and Denso sensors for $250, unbranded (and potentially used) for $28, and a new Denso sensor on eBay for $100. How do I tell if the sensor is a wide ratio range sensor? Is there a special name for it?

These are the ones I've been looking at:
cheap
eBay
not-so-cheap

Also, I just want to make sure that this code refers to the upstream (pre- catalytic converter) sensor and not the downstream one.

I'm pretty new to car stuff but I'm having lots of fun doing this stuff myself. I hope a good spanner and my skinny biceps will be enough; I heard you need a long lever arm to get O2 sensors out.

Thanks in advance for any help!

-Chris
 

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I seem to remember reading somewhere that Honda had to design an O2 sensor specifically for the Insight because regular sensors just weren't accurate enough. It could be that time has marched on and now there are other manufacturers building sensors that will work.

When mine gave out 4 years ago, I replaced it with a Honda part. I don't remember it costing $400. I'd have to check my bills but I thought it was around $250 Canadian and just under $200 US at the time. Have the prices gone up?

If it's the top(first) sensor, it's easy to get to and I used (of all things) a crescent wrench (metric of course) to take out the old one and put in the new.

Let us know how what you bought and how it works.

Bill
 

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The CVT takes a std. 4 wire o2 sensor. The codes you read refer to the #1 sensor. (First, or primary) The "lean burn" sensor for a 5 speed is 5 wires.
A 22mm end wrench will remove it easily. The box end will not fit over the connector.
There are things that I would do first before replaceing the o2 sensor.

Willie
 

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Hi Willie! :)

Just a friendly FYI ie 5 speed Insight _primary_ (before the CAT) O2 seneors:

00-01 (parital 01 model year). Yes the "old" style 5 wire LAF type primary O2 sensor was used. In mid production 01 and _all_ later model year 5 speeds the 5 wire type sensor was "modified" to use 4 wires, but its still an uncommon and expensive LAF type.

Beware trying to "make" a conventional 4 wire sensor work in substution. It won't, and will likely cause catalytic converter damage.


AFAIK (and I checked my sources today) LAF type O2 sensors are still shockingly expensive :(

HTH! :)
 

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I had the primary(5 wire) O2 sensor at about 110,000 or so about 2 years ago. The sensor is made by Bosch. I dont remember the exact prices but priced it through Hondak, Autozone and Napa. Napa was the lowest price and while not cheap I remember it being more than 100 less than what Honda was asking for it at the time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Hi again,

Thanks for the replies so far. They have been very helpful, and I wanted to give an update.

So I figured the cheapest sensor, a universal heated sensor (link) was worth a try so I got it, spliced it into the harness, and put it in.

After I cleared the previous codes, P1166 and 1167 (Primary HO2S (No. 1) Heater System and System Electrical) are now replaced by P1162 (Primary HO2S (No. 1) Circuit Malfunction).

I pulled out the new sensor to double-check wiring. Even with the signal / ground wires flipped around it still triggers CEL. Next I checked the sensor on the bench with a torch. It gives 0 V at room temp, 1 V when hot, and cools to about 100 mV quite rapidly. The new sensor appears to be good. Nevertheless, my ODB-II reader is reading back 0 V on O2 sensor 1 and only 15-35 mV on O2 sensor 2 (I assume this is the downstream one).

This brings up two questions:

1) Have I picked the wrong sensor? I saw a related post (link) that seemed to indicate that a universal type is the wrong one. Other than the 5-wire LAF type, which is used in the MT Insight only, are there other types of sensors that give significantly different voltage outputs? The old sensor only gives about 50 mV when heated with a torch; I am assuming it's broken.

2) Is this a bigger problem than just the sensor? If the ECU isn't reading anything, it's possible that the signal or ground wire is broken elsewhere or the A/D for sensor 1 inside the ECU is broken. Any tips on troubleshooting this?

For what it's worth, the old broken sensor has the following markings:

DU2
DENSO
192400-1050
10C12


Any further help or comments are appreciated!

Thanks,

Chris


P.S. - Willie, what are the 'other things' you would do first before replacing the sensor?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
YES

See my reply above
InsightfulTrekker: Please note that I have a CVT model. I thought your assertion above is that a 5-wire special LAF sensor applied only to 5-speed manual model.

I was under the impression that the CVT does not use a LAF sensor, just a conventional one, for both upstream and downstream sensors. The difference being that the LAF sensor measures lean mixtures as well as stoichiometric whereas the conventional sensor only measures a narrow band around stoichiometric. Am I mistaken, and/or misunderstanding something?

Thanks,

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Also, can you explain why the new (incorrect) sensor reads back 0.0V rather than between 100 mV and 1 V? The heater appears to be working, and revving at 3K for a few minutes to heat things up changes nothing.

Thanks,
Chris
 

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Sorry my bad. It wasn't clear to me that you were a CVT in my first quick read through.

Not being a CVT owner myself I don't have the information on hand, nor do my usual online sources. But neither am I sure that a CVT's primary O2 sensor is not an LAF type. The FSM & ETM do not show a difference (but they do show the 01 and back difference). Even the "official" Honda parts eStore dosen't allow a CVT option to be selected pre the 03 model year. Nor does it give the PN for ready compairson. But price wise its in the LAF catagory on all my online soruces..

A quick call to your local Honda dealer parts counter should be able to clear-up the possible confusion. i.e is there a PN difference for the same model year(s) MT vs. CVT for the primary O2 sensor?

Sorry but online discussions of the intricacies of O2 sensor testing is not my idea of fun. Its complex and requires advanced tools and skills. There have been a few in depth threads on such in here in the past, but you'll probably have a hard time searching them out, sorry.

"Torch" testing of O2 sensors is not standard and fraught with perils. Do so at your own risk!

The simpiler approach :) is to find out if LAF is required or not. Then the rest _may_ not matter in your case.

HTH! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for the quick response!

Well, I did a bunch more digging today and came to the same conclusion as you - that the upstream sensor is the same between CVT and MT. And in fact, the downstream sensor might very well be the same type also (though there are some conflicting anecdotes of dealers saying Bosch 4-wire universal types will work downstream)

The Denso site says that they are the same between CVT and MT; the part number they list is 234-9013, and it is pricier than most other sensors on the site so I'm guessing it'll be the more sophisticated LAF type. Funny as this is exactly the model in the eBay listing in my first post above, and probably the same one from an early thread I had referenced. So anyway I bit the bullet and bought it and I think there's a good chance it's going to be the right one.

In my search I also found that Beck Arnley 156-4231 ought to work as well, but I'll stick with whatever brand was in there before.

Will report back on whether it works.

-Chris


P.S. - here's a neat link to O2 sensor testing: Oxygen Sensor Information
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Followup:

I received the Denso sensor I got off eBay for $100 in the mail and installed it this evening, cleared the 1162, and the CEL light is now staying off. Here's what I read:

O2 Sensor 1, Bank 1: 0.635 V @ 9.4% s.t. fuel trim
O2 Sensor 2, Bank 1: 0.760 V @ 9.4% s.t. fuel trim


In summary:

Denso 234-9013 is a compatible Insight main O2 sensor
It's available on eBay for less than half the listed price
Universal sensor spliced in will not work


Thanks everyone for the suggestions and help!

-Chris
 

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Followup:

I received the Denso sensor I got off eBay for $100 in the mail and installed it this evening, cleared the 1162, and the CEL light is now staying off. Here's what I read:

O2 Sensor 1, Bank 1: 0.635 V @ 9.4% s.t. fuel trim
O2 Sensor 2, Bank 1: 0.760 V @ 9.4% s.t. fuel trim


In summary:

Denso 234-9013 is a compatible Insight main O2 sensor
It's available on eBay for less than half the listed price
Universal sensor spliced in will not work


Thanks everyone for the suggestions and help!

-Chris
Cheapest I found on ebay was $159 including shipping, which is still much cheaper than stock or even the discount sites.
 

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I know this thread has been abandoned, but in case anyone else was curious about additional options, I had success replacing my O2 pre cat sensor with a sensor from Walker products. It was a direct OEM 4 wire compatible replacement and my CVT Insight has yielded up to 68.7MPG per tank for me since that upgrade. :) Note that this is only for the CVT as the MT Insight uses the LAF O2 sensor.
 

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MAKE Compressed Nr NTK AIRTEX BOSCH DENSO WALKER
Acura/Honda 36531RCAA01 5 24302 5S4446 15401 N/A 250-25001
Acura/Honda 36531RCAA02 5 24302 5S4587 15401 N/A 250-25001
Acura/Honda 36531RDJA01 5 24302 N/A 15402 N/A 250-25001
Acura/Honda 36531RDMA01 5 24302 5S4588 15402 N/A 250-25001
Acura/Honda 36531RDV004 5 24302 N/A 15402 N/A 250-25001
Acura/Honda 36531P07003 5 24300 5S3372 13246 N/A 250-2500
Acura/Honda 36531P2MA01 5 24300 5S3378 13025 N/A 250-25001
Acura/Honda 36531PHMA01 5 24301 5S3410 15393 N/A 250-25001

The WALKER 250-25001 is correspond to a lot of honda serials.
is it mean what any of this honda numbers is accepted for insight as well as Walker ?
 

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P1166 cleared with A/F sensor

Thanks, Guys for all the useful info on this thread and some of the other ones. I had CEL come up and finally got around to getting the code read: 1166. Long story short, the Walker 250-54005 Sensor from amazon ($134+tax) did the trick for my dead Denso 192400-1050.

Now I just need to work on my battery, trunk lock, and replacing the front breaks and break fluid :).

The complete story: I have a 2001 CVT and I think I might have fried the O2 sensor when I drove during a computer glitch. I think I let the 12V get too low (I didn't realize that the battery and break lights both coming on meant that the 12V wasn't getting charged--another thing I learned from you guys). The battery was repaired under warranty in 2006 or 2007. It was fine until the past couple years the CEL and IMA lights would come on but I was out of the warranty period (the error codes were the standard battery errors and not the 1166 code back then); however, after reading here I found that I could pull the fuse to reset things. The interval between the error code reappearing gradually shortened (as I have read would happen). A couple months ago I was driving the car without battery assist and I suddenly lost power steering and all the dash instruments would go blank if I turned the headlights on. However, pulling the fuse reset the system and everything was working normally for another month or so. Later the problem happened again and I pulled the fuse; however, I must not have let the battery charge long enough this time as I lost power steering, and the dash display would intermittently go off even without the lights on. I tried driving; however, even flooring the accelerator would only get me up to 40 mph and I lost my lights so I couldn’t even turn on my hazard lights. Fortunately I was able to pull over into a gas station. There was a burning smell from the engine area. It took a couple tries but eventually I got everything reset and the battery assist worked as did lights and the dash. However, later the CEL would stay on even after I pulled the jumper (in the past the CEL and IMA lights cleared with the fuse trick). After going to the shop to get my breaks checked they read the error code. Not sure if the bad O2 sensor was due to that incident but I'm guessing it might be related.
 

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Long story short, the Walker 250-54005 Sensor from amazon ($134+tax) did the trick for my dead Denso 192400-1050.
Just wanted to let the readers of this thread know that my 2004 CVT had an O2 sensor that went bad. When I removed the old sensor it had the same part number: Denso 192400-1050
I bought this Sensor on ebay:

NEW DENSO AIR FUEL RATIO SENSOR 234-9013 FOR HONDA INSIGHT 2006-2002
http://www.ebay.com/itm/16076302075...iewitem=&sspagename=ADME:L:OU:US:3160&vxp=mtr

Worked perfectly and code was cleared.
 

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I am new to this site. A year ago I bought a 2000 MT Insight which my daughter has been driving. The IMA light came on this last month. Dealer says it needs a new primary O2 sensor as well as new battery pack.

I have a scan gauge and verified that I get DTC codes P1162, P0134, and P1147.

I have a full service manual for the Insight and would like to try to replace the primary oxygen sensor myself.

I'd appreciate input on which model works best for the MT Insight. I've
found an NTK 24301 on Amazon for ~$134. Sounds like a good deal, but
wanted to confirm with anyone who has already done this.

Thanks!
Diane
 

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Diane
If it has a 5 wire connection, it should be ok.

HTH
Willie
 
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