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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
As most will have seen we can now get LTO BMS cell voltage data from a complete pack of unique ID LTO blocks.
I also adapted an OBDIIC&C with the tiny CAN add on to allow it to talk to the blocks to get the ID's and cell voltages etc.

84077


As i'm getting a bit more of a handle on the CAN stuff I had another idea. Sorry!.

It seems a good idea for LTO owners who don't have a BCM Replacer to be able to view the cell voltage data on a CAN modified OBDIIC&C instead.
A lot of Lithium converters already own an OBDIIC&C, and if it could talk directly to the LTO blocks that would be a useful additional facility.

It could do some of what the BCM Replacer does but in a much more limited fashion.
It will obviously do all the OBDIIC&C stuff but additionally could....

Watch/display the cell voltages and throw annoying errors/alarms.
Set the SOC to the three available BCM levels etc 40/60/75% when things go awry.

However I won't spend a lot of time adapting the OBDIIC&C software if there isn't likely to be any demand for it.
It's going to be a significant chunk of work. My time isn't free unfortunately, so I have to do stuff that ultimately helps pays the bills.

So any interest in the general idea?

It might also be able to control an external mains charger. ;) More on that later.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
This shows what I mean. :)

The OBDIIC&C gathering all the LTO cell data from the daisy chained pack blocks.

 

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I see that our posts "crossed" so much of this is OBE.

I'm a bit confused and full of questions - what's new;)

Such a capability would display the voltage readings of one sub-block(12 cells) at any given time, if I understand. It seems that there would be two ways in which the capability might be used. First, the unloaded voltages of all the cells could be read out while parked to check for unloaded balance. This is what some are currently doing with a voltmeter and it would seem to have some utility. The lid to the IPU or whatever covering would not need to be removed, so measurement would be considerably easier.

The second way would be to try to make some measurements under various driving loads. Seems that it would be hard to use in the car under actual testing conditions. The driver, who must also be attentative to his driving, would have to switch between screens and remember data while driving, not just once but 5-7 times depending on LTO battery configuration. Maybe data logging the OBDII C&C, and auto stepping the sub-blocks would alleviate the driver demand. There would still be a question of timing. There would be some latency between the first and last screens.

I may be wrong, but from bench testing with the PL8 and heavy loads it seems to me that the latter is the more useful way to monitor the pack, and the more likely to reveal any problems with individual cells???

Later: I think you are closing in on a very useful capability.:)
1. So, some new H/W mods to one's OBDII C&C?
2. A new S/W version?
3. A convenient way to switch from "normal" mode on the gauge to this new "battery" mode?
4. Data loging, or perhaps a "snapshot" mode with low latency?
 

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As most will have seen we can now get LTO BMS cell voltage data from a complete pack of unique ID LTO blocks.
I also adapted an OBDIIC&C with the tiny CAN add on to allow it to talk to the blocks to get the ID's and cell voltages etc.

It seems a good idea for LTO owners who don't have a BCM Replacer to be able to view the cell voltage data on a CAN modified OBDIIC&C instead.
A lot of Lithium converters already own an OBDIIC&C, and if it could talk directly to the LTO blocks that would be a useful additional facility.

However I won't spend a lot of time adapting the OBDIIC&C software if there isn't likely to be any demand for it.

So any interest in the general idea?
I"m in. May I suggest that you coordinate / pair with another person who is comfortable and competent and quick using the Android (my thought) software to get this done quicker with less pain for you, like you and Bulldog?
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
JIME. I think you are missing it. There is a lot of info in my ramblings to take in. ;)

The code is a demo, the actual cell data is being gathered very quickly < 1 second and then frozen.
The display is stepping through the frozen snapshot slowly just so you can see it in the example.
Otherwise it would all be a blur..

In real life you might hardly ever need to look at the individual voltages yourself except when parked out of morbid interest or you suspect a problem with a block/cell etc etc.

That cell info will all be constantly gathered at high speed in the background and processed by the code.
The system won't draw your attention to it unless it goes outside some parameter or other you set.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
If we want someone to develop an Android APP to make use of the data the OBDIIC&C squirts out,
we will need a competent volunteer from our membership. That's of course for another thread.
Hopefully someone might pick up the challenge. They can make it a paid app like Torque Pro.

For now I shall be forging on and ploughing my own furrow as I have too much other stuff to do.
 

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Our posts crossed again, but not a problem. Your demo in post #2 made it all pretty clear to me, and your added notes in #5 made it even clearer. As I said, I think it is a useful capability. My questions in edited version of #3 remain.
I'm most likely in, depending on the cost and the amount of work to build and route the CANbus.
 

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JIME. I think you are missing it. There is a lot of info in my ramblings to take in. ;)
I told you once in a quiet moment that you are a lot smarter than the rest of us and not to expect us all to keep up :)

But, that's what a forum is for.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
3. A convenient way to switch from "normal" mode on the gauge to this new "battery" mode?
This new LTO CAN mode will likely be a simple menu/mode option in the normal OBDIIC&C firmware.
Nothing exciting and no more difficult to select than any of the other standard OBDIIC&C stuff.

In wiring the LTO CAN bus to the gauge some though needs to be applied.

1) The unique ID LTO blocks will be daisy chained together as already shown, then a twisted pair of wires LTO CANH & CANL will need to be routed from the back of the car to the OBDII socket.

2) Ideally then we add two more pins to the OEM OBDII socket on vacant spaces.

3) We install the CAN upgrade pcb into the OBDIIC&C and swap the standard five core wire to a seven core version and connect up our two new CAN wires in the OBDII plug. (It's got loads of spare pins)

4) The LTO CAN bus 12v+ and GND would be connected to suitable ign switched/gnd points in the IMA compartment

This means the upgrade is still P&P, and you can simply unplug the OBDIIC&C as you can now.

You could hardwire it , some might do that rather than fiddle around with the OBDII plug/socket pins.

That's basically it.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
This shows the standard OBDIIC&C firmware talking to the car normally whilst scanning the LTO blocks via the canbus addon. :)

The software now provide audible/visible alarms etc based on high/low LTO cell voltages.

Voltage checks are performed once a second.
For now I have set the alarms at..

2.65V as cell max V.
2.00V as cell min V.

It allows a CAN modified OBDIIC&C to be used as normal, but with the added capability of LTO pack monitoring.

 

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Discussion Starter #12
OBDIIC&C (CAN) controlling solid state relay and turning charger off in response to LTO cell voltage above maximum.

 

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How do you envision the roving ID reader to work? Are there any ground rules? Is there a time limit for keeping it before passing it along? Would one person be responsible for the deposit as it travels around?
What is the rental fee? Would one rental fee cover everyone who wants to pass it around and what would prevent a group of close-proximity users from gathering to all it it on one day?
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
How do you envision the roving ID reader to work? Are there any ground rules? Is there a time limit for keeping it before passing it along? Would one person be responsible for the deposit as it travels around?
What is the rental fee? Would one rental fee cover everyone who wants to pass it around and what would prevent a group of close-proximity users from gathering to all it it on one day?
Thanks for the interest in the OBDIIC&C LTO interrogator.
Fair questions and I hope this helps answer them..

Keep an eye on all the relevant threads as things are moving very quickly with this..
Please also review my much earlier linked threads on OBDIIC&C canbus mods.

If you want to physically hire the one shown then It's $50 for upto a week's hire.
The security deposit though is $400 extra, refunded when I get it back in good condition,
or you post it to someone else in the US to use and it arrives with them in good order.
Yes it's a big deposit, but that will ensure people don't hang on to it, and it gets passed around promptly.

Issac (Bulldog) or the LTO block suppliers may end up looking after it
after it has passed thru the various renters hands who already have blocks in their possession.

It is currently on it's way to an LTO US owner as we speak.
He could forward it to you quite quickly after he has finished with it.
The block reading process only takes ten minutes..

However It's not that difficult to do the CAN upgrade on an OBDIIC&C you already own.
Now we can get/view cell voltages etc a lot of people will use a CAN modified OBDIIC&C to keep an eye on things day to day or help manage the grid charging process as described in my latest video.
If you already have an OBDIIC&C then you could modify it as described in the earlier CANBUS threads.
The list/videos/links for all that are well detailed in the various threads.

If you go down the CAN upgrade route I charge $25 for the firmware and you get to keep it of course ;)
Your fee would also covers future LTO OBDIIC&C CAN related firmware upgrades.
You would be licensed to use it on as many OBDIIC&C's as you own.

Note if you hire the device then your $50 hire fee also gives you the above firmware access FOC in case you acquire or upgrade an OBDIIC&C later.

You are not licensed to lend/hire your CAN OBDIIC&C out to others,
share the CAN firmware, or use it at a group block reading session.


My Insight stuff is part of my retirement income as I hope you understand.
I've spent the last couple of weeks solidly on this new CAN LTO work.
There are many more weeks of work to come to progress the full CAN OBDIIC&C LTO firmware.
Flying to the US to help/meet Insight owners, working on projects and developing new gadgets isn't cheap.

Of course I rely on the integrity of renters/buyers to not abuse things.

Regards Peter
 

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Peter, where does one pick up the K line in the Insight so it can be extended to the OBD2 socket? What are the LTO board connecting plug part numbers, or where does one buy or harvest them other than from a Fit EV that doesn’t exist.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Sorry John I have no idea on the part numbers / supplier for the LTO plugs and sockets.

I suggest contact greentech? LTO supplier they might have spares/harness.

The standard KLIne is present at the OEM OBDII socket anyway:? Do you mean that?

If you want to make CAN accessible at the OEM Socket in the footwell you will have to run wires from the IPU/LTO blocks to it.

Probably best to run at least a eight core cable from the back to the socket if you want to add functionality later.
There are lots of spare pins on the OBD plug/socket. |

Off the top of my head we need extra wires for

1) CANH
2) CANL
3) 12V+ power for LTO BMS
4) GND for LTO BMS (You might be able to use a GND in the back for this)
5) Charger Control +5V Signal
6) Charger Control GND. (Again might be able to use a common GND in the back for this)
7) External 12V+ power for OBDIIC&C (So it can run without the car being turned on) 2A 12v wallwart would do
8) External GND

So that is 5 definite wires and 3 maybe's
 

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thanks for the great info. I didn't make myself clear about the OBD2 socket wires, and I made a mistake ... I see the K and H lines at the OBD2, but not the L line. Is the L line only for newer cars, i.e. HCH 1 & 2, etc? EDIT: you said to have CAN accessible at the OEM Socket in the footwell you will have to run wires from the IPU/LTO blocks to it. You also said, run wires from the IPU/LTO blocks; Where/what is the IPU/LTO blocks. For the immediate concern, does one need the L line connected?
The Grounds... I'm concerned about the different grounds within the MCM and BCM. You mention Pin 8 being external ground, and you mention Pins 4 & 6 being grounds. Is there a difference? and where can they be picked up?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Don't confuse the HLine shown and used on the Insight G1 with the CANH line, they are not the same.

We need to add a CANH & CANL Line.

The IPU is the aluminium IMA box..

The LTO blocks are... well they are the LTO blocks..

There is a logic ground point under the rear crossmember behind the seats that will be our ground.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I am liaising with Art at Greentec auto about the CAN ID issue for buyers of new LTO packs.

He will in due course be getting an OBDIIC&C LTO INTERROGATOR to test and mark packs with ID's before dispatch in future. It will also help him weed out bad packs/modules as he can check cell voltages with it.

It's only people who currently have packs or are getting them very soon who will need to hire my prototype device doing the rounds in the US at present.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Video shows full OBDIIC&C with CAN for complete functionality versus a cut down OBDIIC&C with CAN for simple block interrogator function.

Note I now have a good supply of blank OBDIIC&C pcb's if people want me to build a CAN adapted one for them.

It's relatively easy and much cheaper to build or adapt your own OBDIIC&C as you can see. I can supply blank pcb's, 5 way switches, switch caps, OBDII plugs and the 3d printed case as a kit if needed. POA.. The rest of the parts are easy to order from Mouser or similar.

The two interrogators I am building will be sent to the LTO block supplier for use with his big stock of LTO packs. This will enable the ID's to be written on the blocks and checks made of pack and cell voltages before they are sent out. It should certainly help weed out any blocks that have cells out of whack..

 
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