Honda Insight Forum banner

21 - 40 of 47 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
652 Posts
Great video! Interesting how you put the 4-pin connector on-top of the LCD connector and connected the Yellow and Orange wires from the Daughterboard. Since the LCD is disconnected are you simply using the disconnected pins on the PCB (formally to the LCD) as a meeting place? Since these are the Daughterboard Tx and Rx ports, what do these wires connect to?

You connect the Blue and Green wires from the Daughterboard to the LTO canbus. That would be for individual LTO cell information, right? Is there a means to connect all the LTO packs to the CANH or CANH lines, or all of the LTO CANBUSs together? Would those connections/wires be: White (CANH), Yellow(CANL), Brown(CANH) and Blue(CANL)? What about the redundancy of H and L connections? I guess that’s what’s needed to automatically read all the cell voltages?

I've got questions about the Canbus:

You indicate Canbus wires CANH and CANL need to be brought up from the back and inserted into the OBD2 connector under the dash, right? Where would these two wires initiate from?
I’m confused about CANH and CANL. On post 1 above you do the following list of pin-outs: #6 CanLCar Tx connected to OBDIIC&C connector OBDII plug Pin 14 and #7 HLine from OBDIIC&C connector J1 Pin 3. Aren’t these points the same?

In your updated OBD2C&C CANNBUS schematic you indicate CANH and CANL are now part of the PCB, or at least waiting to be attached. How or where do these lines connect to the pcb?
You mention hooking-up and using a relay with extra wires. What would that relay do? You mention battery charger?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,145 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
John do you have FB messenger? Then we can talk. I haven't got time to type all that!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
134 Posts
Great questions. When you have it sorted, would either of you potentially be OK with providing a summary for others interested in adding CAN abilities to their ODB2C&C? Wish I could eavesdrop on your convo, so I could learn more first hand. Thanks in either case.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
652 Posts
Unfortunately the rules of this Forum indicate I am unable to edit my above post #21 with my questions to Peter. So I'm going to copy-paste the post with Peter's answers, as best as I understood them, in BOLD.

Four things I learned with I didn’t notice before are:

- Change Pic to 2680 for CANN capability;

- Replace J1 5-pin with another connector that has as many openings as one wants; The new plug will still be connected as it is now and soldered onto the PCB by the 5 original soldered pins but for additional openings this will be a ‘connection point’ for your increased wire OBD2 cable going to under the dash;

- it may be easier to get an OBD2 receptacle that goes under the dash from another car since this ‘new’ connector will have additional wires already.

- 100 ohm across last two of daisy chain because high speed - to reduce reflected signal.

Great video! Interesting how you put the 4-pin connector on-top of the LCD connector and connected the Yellow and Orange wires from the Daughterboard. Since the LCD is disconnected are you simply using the disconnected pins on the PCB (formally to the LCD) as a meeting place. NO, see further. Since these are the Daughterboard Tx and Rx ports, what do these wires connect to? ? The LCD is disconnected but the PIC processor is not. These yellow and Orange wires will now connect only to the PIC since the LCD connections have been clipped.

You connect the Blue and Green wires from the Daughterboard to the LTO canbus. That would be for individual LTO cell information, right? Is there a means to connect all the LTO packs to the CANH or CANH lines, or all of the LTO CANBUSs together? For all the LTO information to be connected the LTO balance board plugs need to be daisy-chained. After all LTOs are connected in series, daisy-chained, there will be two remaining unconnected wires. These two wires will go to the BUSS interface daughterboard that is now connected to the OBD2C&C. (See Peter’s video, Post 142). 3RD Gen Civic Lithium Battery Project

This wiring (colors) need to remain consistent. An example of this is to use White and Yellow(CANL) be IN connections and Brown(CANH) and Blue(CANL) be the OUT going to the next pack. Keep this consistent. Would those connections/wires be: White (CANH), Yellow(CANL), Brown(CANH) and Blue(CANL)? YES What about the redundancy of H and L connections? These are the IN and Out for daisy-chain connections. I guess that’s what’s needed to automatically read all the cell voltages? YES

If you have LTO Sensor Board the 8 pin connector with 6 wires are:

Red (V+) DC Supply (I have used 7-12vdc)
Black (V-)
White (CANH) CAN Bus (IN)
Yellow(CANL) CAN Bus (IN)
Brown(CANH) used for Daisy-chain (Out)
Blue(CANL) used for Daisy-chain (Out)


I've got questions about the Canbus:

You indicate Canbus wires CANH and CANL need to be brought up from the back and inserted into the OBD2 connector under the dash, right? Where would these two wires initiate from? They initiate at the LTO packs themselves and need to be brought-up to the OBD connector under the dash. As stated above if one wants to read all the LTO packs the end of the daisy-chain is these two wires.
I’m confused about CANH and CANL. On post 1 above you do the following list of pin-outs: #6 CanLCar Tx connected to OBDIIC&C connector OBDII plug Pin 14 and #7 HLine from OBDIIC&C connector J1 Pin 3. Aren’t these points the same? Ignore the above since CANN H is different than HLine
You mention hooking-up and using a relay with extra wires. What would that relay do? You mention battery charger? Did not discuss.

@ Peter. Is your OBDIIC&C CANBUS UPDATED SCHEMATIC 19/01/2018 appropriate and up-to-date for this project?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,145 Posts
Discussion Starter #26
@ Peter. Is your OBDIIC&C CANBUS UPDATED SCHEMATIC 19/01/2018 appropriate and up-to-date for this project?
Post the link to it and I will have a look.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,145 Posts
Discussion Starter #28
That schematric is basically the original; OBDIIC&C schematic + the CAN daughter board and a jumper to switch the G1 HLINE to CANL when plugged into an HCH2 Civic.

In my latest LTO videos we aren't bothering with the jumper, as the unit is dedicated to the LTO setup and doesn't need to be configurable for an HCH2 setup.

For LTO just do what I have shown in the various new videos..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
489 Posts
Any reason for picking 100 ohm instead of120 ohm for the can termination resistor? I know there are a bunch of calculations and such for determining ideal value, so I'm just curious (I'm a software guy, not an EE).

Not that it seems likely to matter... In my experience canbus is super resilient - I've seen runs that are waaaaay too long, wrong layout (star vs bus), too many twists or no twists in the wire pair, running next to high current / hv... and they still work perfectly, even with missing/extra term resistors sometimes.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,145 Posts
Discussion Starter #30

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
779 Posts
The most correct is for the resistor to match the impedance of whatever wire you're running it over. 120 ohms is what CAN is specified for, but you can run it over different wire and use different termination resistor values with no issues. Ethernet cable twisted pairs, for example, are 100 ohms impedance, so if you used that you should put a 100 ohm resistor at each end.

In practice, like GuySmily says, CAN is very resilient and will usually work under non-ideal conditions. Just have some sort of twisted wire, put a 100/120 ohm resistor at each end, and you'll be alright for hobby use.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,145 Posts
Discussion Starter #32
The OBDIIC&C LTO Block BMS Interrogator has arrived in the US.
It is being used this weekend by one of our LTO users to get his CAN ID's and cell/battery voltages etc.

Does anyone want it sent to them next week?
E-mail me asap if you do or it will be sent elsewhere.. :)

Hire terms as previously described.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,755 Posts
I want to rent the tool at some point, but right now up to my ears in Insight tasks and little capacity to get stuff done.:(

Quick question. Since we are passing the tool around in the U.S., how does one recover their $400 deposit? Do you ask the "next in line" to send the lessee(me) the $400 before shipping? Otherwise, the system doesn't seem to work since I don't know how I'd get my deposit back.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,145 Posts
Discussion Starter #34
I send you the deposit back when the next person verfies they have received it intact from you.
It probably would be a good idea to get it now, it only takes minutes to read the blocks.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,321 Posts
You should also "insure" the package for loss and/or damage? when shipping. What is the preferred shipper?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,145 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
You can send it around as cheap as you like, I did. :) Pack it well and how likely is it to get damaged really?
But if it arrives squashed flat or you keep it longer than a week you might lose some of your deposit.
I do suggest tracked and signed.

The deposit is mainly to ensure people don't hold onto it, it doesn't reflect it's value which is nominal.
Take a picture of the box you pack it in when shipping and the postage receipt..

I'm won't be unreasonable if things do go a bit wrong through no fault of your own.
By using paypal as a deposit Ican simply refund your deposit part at no cost to either party.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,755 Posts
I send you the deposit back when the next person verfies they have received it intact from you.
It probably would be a good idea to get it now, it only takes minutes to read the blocks.
For me it is a bit of an effort. I have to mount the boards back on the blocks, 4 at a time, since I don't want to try to tinker with the boardless car. OR, maybe I missed the point and the boards can be read without being mounted to the blocks????

BTW, on the deposit, I think you are missing the point - or I am ;) If you send the deposit back to the first person, them seems you are left without a deposit by the second person, and your objective of making the rig move is defeated. I must be missing something.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,145 Posts
Discussion Starter #38 (Edited)
You can read the id's on unconnected boards.

The second person sends me the deposit. when they get the device from the first person, the first person gets their deposit back.,
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,755 Posts
Ah ok, now it makes sense.

Not much work since the boards don't have to be installed on the blocks.

I would still like to be down the line on the rental if you can get others into line. My limited capacity stretched a bit thin right now.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
11,145 Posts
Discussion Starter #40
Last call before the CAN interrogator gets sent off to the next renter in the US...
 
21 - 40 of 47 Posts
Top