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I had my oil changed at SanTan Honda in Gilbert on New Years Eve. The service manager informed me that his tech could not tighten the plug enough to crush the crush washer. He told me they had to use Honda Bond with the plug and it should hold til the next oil change. He quoted me $740 for a new pan installed. I called Tempe Honda and got a quote for $590 and that they have an online coupon for 15% of parts and labor for their high mileage club (hondas over 100,000) so they are charging me $500 even. I put it in today and requested the old pan back. I purchased an oil pump for future oil changes, now that I am aware of the problem that can occur. If anyone wants the old pan, let me know and I will send pictures. They are so expensive that I would rather give it away to someone who might be able to use/repair or whatever. I'll be getting the car back by tomorrow evening. PM me if you are interested, if you want or need it all I will ask is for the cost to box and ship it to you.
 

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I would have put a heli-coil insert into the drain plug hole myself. Or if you aren't prepared to do it yourself, an independent shop would almost certainly do the job for less than 50 bucks. Better than new afterwards.

It's actually an even bet that your Honda dealer stripped the threads, and are making you pay for fixing it. If you've always had Honda do your oil changes, then it's a for sure.

You may be in for a surprise when you see your old oil pan. It's basically the bottom part of the engine block. See here:
http://www.insightcentral.net/encyclope ... eight.html
 

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ibjeff said:
I had my oil changed at SanTan Honda in Gilbert on New Years Eve. The service manager informed me that his tech could not tighten the plug enough to crush the crush washer.
AFAIK it isn't a crush washer. It's a simple flat metal washer, aluminum I think, with no crush to it. That's what every Honda car and motorcycle I've worked on has used. I've done the Insight once and I think it was the same flat washer (someone please correct this if I'm wrong!). The BMW motorcycle I once had used crush washers.

And you tighten it to a rather low torque, with a torque wrench if you want to be really careful. If they're trying to smoosh the aluminum they're probably using way too much torque.
 

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a fumoto quick-drain valve goes a long way towards preventing that problem.
 

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:evil:

It's actually an even bet that your Honda dealer stripped the threads, and are making you pay for fixing it. If you've always had Honda do your oil changes, then it's a for sure.
I'll hazard a guess that this is exactly what happened. If the idiot(s) at the first Honda dealer happened to put something on your invoice to the effect of "crush washer wouldn't crush" or "crush washer damaged" or some such "crush" reference, take a copy of the invoice back to them, say that they should know the Insight uses NO such item, that the invoice is an admission of damage caused to your car due to their ignorance, and you want immediate and complete reimburesement for your unneeded expense in replacing a part they damaged, or you will take legal action for reimbursement plus damages (time lost from work, travel, inconvenience, pain and suffering, loss of consortium, shingles, whatever you can throw at them). It may be just enough to scare them into cutting you a check. :x

If they refuse, have your attorney write them a letter on his letterhead with the same threat (a cheap alternative to actual court-based legal action). They will probably cave then. :roll:

Let us know how this works out, but unless you've had others work on your car, and you can document Honda-only visits, you have a wonderful case... :D
 

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boogetyboogety said:
If they refuse, have your attorney write them a letter on his letterhead with the same threat (a cheap alternative to actual court-based legal action). They will probably cave then.
My niece, a lawyer, calls this a "pay or die" letter.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you all for the good advice. I had the pan changed at a different dealership and kept the old one. As I stated earlier in this thread, after they stripped the pan they printed on my invoice that I needed a new pan at $730. :shock: I went to Tempe Honda and they did it with a total out the door of $516. :? its all so screwy!!! :roll: I have an appt with my attorney about completing my will and will bring up this situation with him while there. I don't want to fight this one by myself, so I will go by his advice. Thanks again for support and advice. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #8
One more thing!!! Thanks for all the PM wanting the pan. I am keeping it until the situation is resolved. I will probably need it for proof. :oops:
 

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Expect the problem to reoccur. The design of the pan is flawed. A hard stainless bolt threads into a soft magnesium oil pan with no threaded insert. The crush washer needs too much torque to seal on a fastener that is often removed.

A HeliCoil replaces the soft threads with hard steel threads that are many times stronger then the original pan. After a few oil changes the threads in your new (very expensive...) pan are going to start to get soft, and they will strip out again.
 

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I would recomend the Fumoto valve like HafNHaf said...I installed mine during my first oil change and your problems are solved (for those who did not buy a pump to retrieve the oil).

JoeCVT - Just your average CVT owner
 
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