[b1shmu63]

Thanks to all for the interesting discussion, pics, tips.

If you own a 5 speed Insight in good working order, read and understand all the techniques on this forum, then practice them until they become natural, you won't need any other proof than the readout on your own vehicle.

Just don't peeve other drivers! They may have a legitimate need for speed. I do sometimes. :wink: My recent 89.7 MPG was done at 3:00 in the morning, and I saw only 4 or 5 other motorists. If someone is gaining on me I signal and pull over in one of the many small villages (where the speed limit is 30 MPH) to let them pass. If this is not possible then I drive at the speed limit. Enjoy!

 

[Getshocked.ca]

Xcel

Get a Video Camera and record a 96km trip with a minimum of 110 mpg outcome, that is all im asking

 

[Chris]

Look Getshoked.ca, I would say that 90 to 100 mpg is possible, but I have seen one person on the Danniel Curran website get 134 mpg or somewhere in the 130ish. Now as for that I would have to be a little skeptical about it, but yeah, it very well could be true. The reason why I am a bit skeptical about it is the fact that only that one person got that on the site and I don't know of or atleast have heard of anyone on this site get that high. I don't get why you guys are all jumping on me for being a bit skeptical about the mpg with a manual, when I can recall that some of you on this site were telling me that when I told you that this lady I e-mailed got 76 mpg on her Automatic Insight, that I was lying or that was immpossible, or it was herrsay. I believe that the lady I e-mailed got 76 mpg on her Insight with a automatic. In fact here is the e-mail that I sent her:


Hi Chris -- glad you're interested in the Insight. It's a fun
little car -- I particularly like zooming around curves while cars
without sport suspensions lumber along behind me.

How fast does the Insight go?
The top speed is supposed to be 112 mph. I've only been up to
about 85, but the car doesn't seem to be working too hard at that
speed.

What is the highest mpg that you have gotten on the Insight?
I got 76 mpg on the way to work once. My commute is about 30 miles
mostly on the interstate, so I can get pretty high numbers. I have
an automatic transmission -- the manuals get better mileage.
People with manuals often have a lifetime mpg in the range of 76,
whereas mine is 56. It's better in warm weather.

How does the Insight handle?
Wonderfully! As I mentioned, it's low to the ground with a sports
car suspension. People who like to drive love to take my car for
spin. Of course, your mileage suffers when you're zooming and
accelerating (you might get 50 mpg instead of 60), but it's so much
fun that I just can't resist from time to time.

How is the ride, is it a smooth ride?
No -- it's bumpy. The suspension is tight, and the low rolling
resistance tires which bump up your mileage are small and hard. I
don't notice, but if you're used to a cushy ride, you might.

Do you get alot of attention with your Insight?
Not as much as you'd think! I hear they get more attention
elsewhere in the country. I live on the east coast, and I've only
been stopped in parking lots a couple times. I occasionally get
grins and thumbs up from other drivers, especially since I added
the "My car sips gas, your car sucks" bumper sticker.

How often do you have to refuel your Insight?
Every two weeks. I commute about 60 miles round trip to work and
school 4 days a week. If you're driving to suit the car, you can
get 600 miles out of a tank. If you're driving to have fun, you
get 500. My gas light comes on when I have 1.3 gallons left, so you learn
not to rush to the pump right away -- why fill up when you have 80
miles left? It's more fun to push it a little and see if you can
get a new tank record. I reset one of the trip odometers with each
tank, so I can calculate from the tank mpg and odometer reading how
far I'm going to get.

Is the Insight fun to drive?
Oh yes! I think I covered that You've probably heard that the
pick-up isn't great. I haven't found it to be a problem -- I can
blow away from stop lights when I feel like jibing the person next
to me, and merging and passing are not a problem. When you
accelerate, the electric engine supplements the gas engine, and
it's my understanding that electric engines have more torque so you
get better acceleration. The automatics also have a "second gear"
button on the steering wheel that you can push when you need to
throw mileage to the wind and really accelerate.

Is the digital speedometer hard to see during the day?
Only if the sun is really glaring on it. In normal light it's very
bright, even if you've turned the headlights on to go through a
tunnel (which dims the dash lights) and forgotten to turn them off.

http://insightcentral.net is a source of all sorts of fascinating
things about Insights, and there are some Yahoo groups that are
good to ask questions on it. I'm on the honda-hybrid group for
Insights and Civics, and while most of the discussions aren't of
interest to me, they do come out with the occasional tidbit and are
generally happy to tell people about hybrids.

I'm casting a somewhat covetous eye toward the 2004 Prius --
the keyless buttonless entry and start intrigues me, and all Priuses
run in fully electric mode up to about 20 mph, so they're great for
inching in slow traffic. But, try as they might, they just don't
look like my spaceship.

 

[Foxpaw]

Xcel

Get a Video Camera and record a 96km trip with a minimum of 110 mpg outcome, that is all im asking

One could argue that it's possible, in fact probable, that the pictures already shown in this thread were produced with the aid of imaging devices we call "cameras." So one might say that your request has already been fulfilled.

Although you specifically request a video camera, so it sounds as though your assertion might be that the pictures here have all been modified using imaging software or other tampering.

You should take into consideration that the pictures as posted seem authentic, as they are lacking in any obvious artifacts from modification, even under magnification. This strongly suggests that they are either unmodified, or that they were modified by someone with a great deal of skill. Given that many of these images were prepared by different people, it seems unlikely that all of them possess the requisite skills to produce such a flawless fake.

In addition, as has already sort-of been mentioned, it would be very difficult to modify the readout directly. Though the lifetime mileage could perhaps be spoofed, the segment and trip displays would be very difficult to modify. There is no method provided for an end user to reset the MPG readout without resetting the trip odometer, or vice versa. Thus, in order for a person to do so they would require a fairly comprehensive understanding of electronics and modern computer organization. Again, though there may be people on this forum with the requisite skills, I find it unlikely that all of those posting pictures of their mileage readouts possess those same skills. It also seems likely that if someone had figured a way to tamper with the ECU, that there might be a thread here regarding it.

Thirdly, you are asking alot - you are requesting that a person first obtain a video camera, and some means of transferring the video recording to a computer, then either holding a camera while they drive for over an hour, or fabricating some sort of mount for the camera, an endeavor that would likely take several hours, in addition to requiring equipment and skills that not everyone would possess. That makes your request lofty indeed, and as has already been pointed out, you are making this request on the premise that no remuneration of any sort would be provided.

I'm confident that there are people on this forum that do want you to see the mileage that our hybrid cars are capable of. However, you are requesting proof far above and beyond what would be expected in a court of law, and asking that people expend a considerable amount of effort and resources for the sole purpose of your personal satisfaction that we are telling the truth. On top of that, I have seen no evidence to the contrary. The physics and chemistry seem to agree that there is, in fact, more than enough energy in one gallon of gasoline to move a 1800 pound car 110 miles. It seems to me that it would be more reasonable to question claims of LOW mileage, as these are the ones that seem to defy science.

 

[b1shmu63]

That's a really good description of the Insight. I don't have any issue with someone getting 76 in a CVT once in a while. I managed 111 on one 20 mile trip from Sharbot Lake to Bollingbroke this summer. It was an amazing fluke. 56 for a LMPG sounds right. I find John1701's LMPG of 49.4 in a car that weighs 1,000 pounds more, uses non LRR tires, and runs on ethanol blend more impressive! I suspect he will break 50 as his engine wears in.

Bottom line: If you can't get record breaking gas mileage in an Insight, you certainly won't get it in any other car!

 

[b1shmu63]

Foxpaw, you're absolutely right. The preponderance of evidence argues that such numbers are achievable. A video taped drive would prove nothing. A modest tail wind or slope would skew the results. Pragmatic Wayne has already gathered and recorded waaaaaay more info than I would dream of, and he readily shares his insights. Asking him to do more is unreasonable.

Getshocked: Put some extra racing air in those tires, change to 0W20 synthetic, Make sure you have a good 12 volt battery, install the rad block and hot air duct, change your tranny oil to 5W40 synthetic, turn off your AC, find a straight level road on a warm day with a little tail wind and head off at a steady 40 to 50 MPH in your 5 speed Insight. You will prove it to yourself!

 

[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

We all aggree that driver technique has more to do with mileage than many of the other variables. A video tape showing the instrument cluster during a test drive, with a narration by one of our mileage champs, explaining the techniques of dealing with climbing hills, stop and go, acceleration, and feathering the gas to stay in lean burn. A real time narration would add subtle information about how to maximize these variables. I always wondered why Honda did not provide a tutorial video tape with the car.
Mike

 

[Getshocked.ca]

Why is this so hard to understand ???????

Xcel claims he has done a 96km trip and acheived 117 mpg on that trip, All I am asking for an UNMODDED Insight to prove at least 110mpg on Video Tape

You guys can argue the validity of the pictures till the cows come home, I dont buy it, and if it is a trip he does everyday then there shouldnt be any inconvience

 

[ElectricTroy]

(shrug) Okay you refuse to believe.
Move along.
Nothing to see here.

 

[Chris]

Getshocked.ca wrote:

Why is this so hard to understand ???????

Xcel claims he has done a 96km trip and acheived 117 mpg on that trip, All I am asking for an UNMODDED Insight to prove at least 110mpg on Video Tape

You guys can argue the validity of the pictures till the cows come home, I dont buy it, and if it is a trip he does everyday then there shouldnt be any inconvience

Getshocked.ca, why are you saying that 100 + mpg is impossible? It is not because for 1.You can look at the pics that Xcel posted , 2.Look at the MPG charts at Green Hybrid.com. It is possible because like what I said before about how you Could possibly fake it, which would be, that if you are able to manual press a button on your dash that would allow you to reset you mpg then you could fake 100 or even more, by simply not pressing the button to reset the mpg, this would result in your mpg to be a big number on your dash so it would look something like this: 66600000 or what ever number. If you cannont press a button on your dash to reset the mpg on your car and it does it automatically after each tank, than it is immpossible to fake it. ElectricTroy has already proven what I have stated above to be wrong. So ElectricTroy has already proved to me that 100 + mpg is possible:

ElectricTroy wrote:

Notice the left has the MPG and the right has the MILES. These two numbers are tied together, so there's no way to "fake it". The driver of this Insight absolutely, positively scored 116.6 mpg over 95.6 miles.

b1shmu63 wrote:

I managed 111 on one 20 mile trip from Sharbot Lake to Bollingbroke this summer. It was an amazing fluke. 56 for a LMPG sounds right.

Did you get that 111 mpg with a automatic if so WOW :shock: I have never seen that high before.

 

[figgy]

I think anyone who wants to see low or high mpg readouts just has to pay attention to their instantaneous mpg reading and drive.

If you are out on a nice warm day and it is flat or even better slightly sloping downhill, then you can get super high mpg.

If it is freezing cold and you are climbing a mountain, then you get super low mpg.

It goes without saying that the road conditions, the slope of the road, and the wind all play a part as do things like pumping up your tires and doing simple mods for cold weather (like a piece of cardboard, which is almost so simple it is not really a mod at all).

Even a little slope makes a big difference. No one can get 120 mpg for a trip going up a hill, period. Anyone can get 120 mpg for a trip going downhill if they want. The more the slope the easier it is for those short trip figures (short meaning < 100 miles or so). It's just the so-called gravity assist kicking in for you.

The truly impressive numbers are the folks who have insanely high lmpg readings and tons of miles on the cars. You don't have to drive for that, and you may not live in a climate or geographic location where that is even possible, but it doesn't mean that those folks are making things up!

 

[Foxpaw]

Why is this so hard to understand ???????

Xcel claims he has done a 96km trip and acheived 117 mpg on that trip, All I am asking for an UNMODDED Insight to prove at least 110mpg on Video Tape

You guys can argue the validity of the pictures till the cows come home, I dont buy it, and if it is a trip he does everyday then there shouldnt be any inconvience

:roll: Your assumption that "there shouldn't be any inconvenience" is completely flawed. As stated in my previous post, you are asking someone to first obtain a video camera, which may involve a considerable investment if one does not already have a video camera and doesn't know anyone who does. (I don't know anyone with a video camera, personally.)

Then they have to find a way to get it onto their computer, which may involve the expenditure of more time and money. If it was a digital video camera, you can somewhat skip this step.

Then, as I also already mentioned, they are going to have to either hold a video camera for an hour while they are driving, or spend hours designing and fabricating a mount to place the camera inside the car.

You are requesting that someone perform these inconvenient tasks for the sake of "beating a dead horse:" to provide more evidence for something that is already highly supported with evidence - the reward for their labours being your personal satisfaction.

I'm certain that there are people on this forum that would like to see you satisfied with the mileage of our Insights, however, I'm not confident that there are people who would like to see you satisfied so badly that they are willing to invest hundreds of dollars in a camera and several hours of their time building a mount for it.

It also probrably doesn't help people's motivation to convince you when your attitude is to dismiss seemingly overwhelming evidence, without giving any reason: when photographic evidence, world records, and an established automotive magazine, as well as the theoretical physics and chemistry involved all agree that such high mileage is possible, one would generally be asked to provide some support for a claim to the opposite.

 

[Chris]

Foxpaw I remember seeing someone on this forum setting up a camera in there car, and they were weaving in and out of cones for some sort of event, they had the camera mounted in the back between the seates, so it may not be that hard to set a camera up in the car, but as for the expense, I don't know how much it would be but I assume that it would be alot like you said.

 

[james]

Just to add some more fuel to the fire: I filled the tank on the way in to the lab just now (first time since early October, but there was a two-week business trip in there). As per my custom, I reset the trip display, and finished the drive in - about 10 miles of fairly level freeway, plus a half mile of streets getting on & off at either end. Trip mileage is now 92.something, so I think that if I only drove this route, I'd be up there in the 90+ pack too

 

[b1shmu63]

Chris, the fellow with the video camera was Guillermo. He has it set up on a tubular steel frame like a roll cage in the hatch area. Nice job! An interesting note is that he bought the car second hand off a fellow who was the mileage champ at that time. I didn't catch the name though. "G" doesn't drive for mileage, but man oh man he cetrtainly knows how to navigate around those pilons! Going for a run with him is certainly an eye opener.

I have a five speed. I try to maximise lean burn by accelerating in 3rd to 55 and then lock in at 100 MPG+ and let the speed gradually drop over a couple of miles to about 45, then start the cycle again. If the road has a gradual down slope I can maintain higher speeds and stay in 5th. On long valleys I let the speed creep up into the 60s going down and then bleed off into the 40s going up. If someone is following I forget all this and just drive at the limit, letting them pass when I get into a village. Roads here are all single lane 2 way rural routes. Sometimes I get to play the mileage game, sometimes I don't. Arround here many folk drive open box trucks and get 15 miles per gallon with a tail wind! Many of them need the trucks for farming, construction, hunting, hauling trailers, or just getting in to their properties.

 

[Getshocked.ca]

Heres what I will do

If Someone tapes this trip I will pay the cost of the tape as well as S/H To my house and I will Personally convet it to digital and upload it to my website


So Far all im hearing is alot of talk, So unless You have the meins to perform this task, Messaging about how its an inconvienence is nothing but an EXCUSE and THREAD CRAP

 

[figgy]

Are those Canadian dollars?

Seriously, what's the point anyway? If someone wants to prove that they can drive on a trip and get 150 mpg, all they have to do is plan a trip downhill. I don't see the point of all this nonsense.

Some folks drive carefully for mpg and get really high mileage, other folks drive less for mpg and more for fun and get lower mileage.

If you don't personally want to drive for the highest mpg, no one here is complaining, and you don't need to sling mud at others on account of your personal driving choice.

Just enjoy your Insight.

 

[b1shmu63]

What Insighter would bother to download 2 hours of the worlds most borring driving just to prove what they could readily experience firsthand?

"G's" slalom driving videos are another matter entirely. Small download, very entertaining, instructional, and a great promotion for the Insight! Two thumbs up!

 

[DonA]

Well, I've learn't a lot from reading this thread. Since my Insight Lmpg is in the low 60's and I do most of the less extreme techniques to keep it as high as I can, I have been sceptical of some of the really high claims.
I was wondering if there was a plus or minus 10% range in the fuel flow sensor and those of us at the low end just happened to have the sensors in the low end of the scale. But since some of the reports are backed up with records of actual fuel purchased and they more or less agree, I'm now a believer.

My numbers are now dropping as it gets colder. I think I'll get busy on a warm air mod while it is still warm enouh to work out in the garage.

Thanks for the comments and links to other sources

Don, Seattle

 

[b1shmu63]

Don, don't feel discouraged. If I drove short trips in the city mine would be way worse. If you are doing over 60 MPG, you are achieving three times the national average! When I drove through the winter mine dropped from 73 to 68.