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I've had my 2005 Insight for 5 years and never had issues and have always kept up with maintenance. I installed a Hybrid Revolt grid charger shortly after I bought the car to keep the pack balanced. I haven't used the charger that much because the battery stayed in synch. Today while driving I noticed the battery gauge showing a full charge and then an empty charge and back full again, so I knew something was amiss. The assist and charging was acting weird too. I did notice the AC stopped cooling and then several minutes later got the IMA light on. It appears that my pack fan has failed and let the whole pack overheat. I pulled the battery cover off and everything was hot. Should a new pack and fan fix this or have I cooked the electronic modules too.

I don't know if the AC issue is related or not.

When I first bought the car I spent a lot of time on this forum learning about the car but have forgotten most of it. If u don't use it u will lose it!
I would rather fix the car than replace it since it only has 135 thousand on it.
 

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You had a Recal. Time to do a grid charge.

Sam
 

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I hooked up the charger and the pack fan blips a little and charging shuts down. When I got home earlier I could smell the pack. That's why I pulled the cover and the pack was too hot to touch.

Could have been a recal I guess.
 

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Shouldn't the pack fan run all the time while charging? The temp in Georgia today was 1 degree shy of a record. 99 degrees
 

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You probably need to first check what IMA trouble code you got. Your case sounds a bit odd... The idea that the pack was "too hot to touch" and that you could smell it make me think you've got some really big problem, perhaps dangerous - because I've never heard such a thing and it's not possible for the pack to get that hot unless there's a real big problem... What part of the pack are you talking about, that was too hot to touch?

Also, whether your pack fan was working or not - that wouldn't prevent the pack from heating to the degree you describe, i.e. the fan not working wouldn't be the problem that causes that amount of overheating, 99 degree ambient or not...
 

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Yes, your fan should always run while grid charging. Since the fan and the charger stopped together, that sounds a bit like the charger quit. You may have some shorted cells.

You need to have the codes read and provide that information. Otherwise it is mostly a guess at what is happening.

Later: I prepared my answer last night but didn't send because I wanted to think it through. I see eq1 posted in meantime. I like his response and was myself thinking that yours is a bit of a strange case.

You might benefit from checking the tap voltages according to the link in post #2 of this thread:


You can also get the blink codes using the technique in the 99mpg link in the same post. Both of those could prove valuable information.
 

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I re read my original post and I may have made it sound worse than it was as far as the heat in the pack. I could smell that something electrical was getting hot and after removing the battery cover found the control modules on the top of the battery itself were hot enough that you couldn't touch them for long. On the other hand I've never pulled the cover after a 50 mile drive in hilly country to know if it was abnormal or not.

I've got an OTC Evolve scanner that I kept when I sold my auto repair shop in April. I'll fire it up and see what the codes are. I did drive it today because I had no other car to drive. I didn't have the heat issue but did have some quirky regen and assist levels. I will post the codes
 

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I didn't have the heat issue but did have some quirky regen and assist levels. I will post the codes
It would be helpful if you described this more fully. For example one "quirky" behavior folks see is a cutback in assist level after 4-6 seconds. Turns out that this is normal. So - what is quirky about the assist/regen?

Might be worth running the car a few days with the IPU lid off. That way you can easily see if the fan is running.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
When I drove the 50 miles on the first leg of my drive I had full regen and assist as I always have had. On the way back regen and assist were limited to just 3 or 4 bars on the scale whether I was coasting in gear or had the throttle to the floor. I was showing half a charge on the gauge. I did disconnect the 12v battery last night before pulling the cover so yesterdays codes are gone but I did get a CEL today but no IMA light.

I apologize for not being clearer in my descriptions
 

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I re read my original post and I may have made it sound worse than it was.... I could smell that something electrical was getting hot and after removing the battery cover found the control modules on the top of the battery itself were hot enough that you couldn't touch them for long.... I've got an OTC Evolve scanner that I kept when I sold my auto repair shop in April. I'll fire it up....
hmm, hard to say, I've never actually touched the computers after use either so I don't know for sure how hot they get. In general, hot enough to smell something and hot enough to be uncomfortable to the touch seems hotter than it should be. Pretty sure the 'left side' stuff can get pretty hot, like that big metal heatsink - so maybe it's possible it's just getting pretty hot under there, in 99F ambient and use...

In any event, still probably best to get that code read (is your IMA light still on?), not sure typical scanners read IMA codes, so you may need to do the blink thing - short a couple terminals on the OBDII connector and watch the dash warning lights blink... There's a description of how to do that somewhere around here, like a sticky at the top of one of these forums.

"Quirky" assist and regen -- weird throttling can happen at various times for unclear reasons, most often due to heat, I think, low/high state of charge and/or low/high voltage on one or more of the voltage taps (most common, low for throttling assist, high for throttling regen), an IMA error of some sort that can end up triggering something like a stunted maintenance-type mode of operation, and possibly even high altitude usage. So, who knows...
 

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So my 2001 had the same issue. IMA light came on. Drove 48 miles then the CEL came on and AC went hot. Rolled the windows down and shut off all non essential peripherals. Drove 1.7 miles to autozone. Read codes P1449 and P1447, battery overheat and deterioration codes. They couldn't provide any further information on the codes. On the 48 mile drive back there was no charge or assist. I pulled up the carpet to expose the battery covers for better cooling as I drove. Does anyone know if the battery overheat code will reset on its own when the battery cools down?
 

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P1449 is a battery overheat code only if it is also a subcode of 72, so P1449-72. That's based on the 4 thermistors attached to the sticks. -73 is a cell overheat code based on the PTC strips attached to the sticks. The -72 threshold temp is 176 degrees F according to the DTC manual. I think the -73 is even higher. But they're both so high that they're rare, for one, but also, that I have a hard time seeing anything but pack or cell failure causing them... In any event, the P1449-72 should clear after 3 consecutive drives if the failure doesn't happen again.

I've driven in pretty hot ambient, maybe around 90-100F, and even with a bad pack and the fan not working, the hottest I saw was something like 125 degrees F. With a good pack, driving all day in summer, I never see over... about 100F. I run my fan on low all the time, and when it gets up to about 85F I'll turn it on high if I'm going to be using the pack a lot and/or hard. But even without these measures I don't see temps over 100F. I rarely see temps over 90F...
 

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@eq1 Did you install a manual control for the fan? If so is that something you would recommend?

I need to get about 8 more years our of this car. Once I graduate med school and complete residency my wife has agreed to let me send my insight off to Florida for the K20 Turbo AWD conversion. But if it dies before then I likely will have to sell it as we cant really afford to store a car while we are both in college and living with family.

I pulled the front battery and was going to have it load tested at autozone but the guy working there was new and wasn't sure how to do it. When I hooked the battery back up the CEL and IMA light were off and it began charging. Got up to four bars then charging stopped. I drove home being careful not to draw on the assist at all and held at four bars. But no regenerative braking on the half mile drive home to charge. It's still at 4 bars. I'm currently installing rear speakers and a new stereo head unit. Once that's done I may take it on a longer drive to see if it pops the IMA light again.
 

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If the code is heat related, It might disappear on it's own.
I would install a switch to control the fan on the IMA battery. A lot of G1 Insighters have done that.
Start the engine and let it idle and see if the IMA SOC gauge goes to full. It may take about 5 minutes.
If the code come back the battery needs a good maintenance charge.

Please include your Location in your Profile, as ALL G1 Insighters have done.
Thank You.
Willie
 

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Well at idle it won't charge. So I'm guessing the IMA will come on at my next drive. Hopefully not though, hoping for the best.

I will definately search for a manual fan control install guide on here and install that.

So after reading around on Grid Chargers I understand the benefits of them, but what I can't figure out is how they work? Is it something I plug in when not driving or does it just do its thing while I am driving?
I have the funds to buy one from Hybrid Automotive, The Prolong reconditioning package. Just want to make sure I understand how it all works before I drop $409 on it.

Thank you both for your help and guidance.
 

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So after reading around on Grid Chargers I understand the benefits of them, but what I can't figure out is how they work? Is it something I plug in when not driving or does it just do its thing while I am driving?
I have the funds to buy one from Hybrid Automotive, The Prolong reconditioning package. Just want to make sure I understand how it all works before I drop $409 on it.
You use the grid charger while the car is stationary. The charger hooks up to a 110V AC outlet. You will have to remove the cover for the battery to install the charger harness. Hybrid Automotive provides instructions.

Grid chargers usually improve battery performance, but there is some risk that it won't, particularly with a P1449 code, which is the worst of all the battery codes - just to be honest about the chances.
 

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I need to get about 8 more years our of this car.
I'm sorry, but I don't think that getting 8 years out of this battery is a realistic hope at all. The codes are already quite serious. With a grid charger and some work, you might get a year or two - if you are lucky. I base this on my own experience and that of others here.

Even replacement batteries don't usually last 8 years.

I hate to be a party pooper, but it doesn't sound like you have the flexibility to make any mistakes or missteps with this situation. IMO, best to cut your losses short.
 

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Well I appreciate your honesty. Even if o replace the battery in a couple years I can probably squeeze that past the wife and the budget. For now I'm thanking God and counting my blessings. After wiring in the rear speakers I went for a 10 mile drive with some good downhill runs and one uphill that requires assist. The battery charged up and assist went in like normal. I ran the loop twice to make sure the battery was recharging and it seems like it is. Could be early symptoms of a battery on it's way out though so I will start preparing for that possible future.

Jime, thank you again for the honesty. You're not a party pooper at all. You speak the truth and I appreciate that. As my Dad always taught me, one honest truth is worth more than a thousand sweet sounding lies.
 

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@eq1 Did you install a manual control for the fan? If so is that something you would recommend?
I have an OBDIIC&C computer thing made by IC member Peter P. Among the many other things it enables, it allows you to control the fan manually... I don't know if manual control is all that important, I think it would be if you lived in a hot climate. The fan doesn't turn on until 95 degrees F, and then I think it tries to maintain temps between 95 and 100F. That seems a little on the warm side to me... I mainly run the fan on low all the time because I think it probably helps to even-out temperatures at different locations within the pack housing. If cells are at different temperatures, they'll perform differently and eventually drift out of balance sooner rather than later. I don't know for a fact that there's much of a difference with fan on low all the time or not, it's just kind of a hunch. Eli at Bumblebee Batteries, as I recall, mentioned this some years ago and I think they ended up rigging their packs to do just that, run the fan on low all the time. So, it kind of makes sense to me.

On the other hand, the pack has some really wacky baffles in it, plus the fan pulls cabin air from the 'far side' of the pack through the 'near side'; plus there's extra wrap around the cabin side sticks, I think to compensate for the cooler air that would enter there vs. the warmer air that would exit the pack at the fan side. Etc etc. Point is, there's these seemingly subtle 'technologies' in the pack that have to do with regulating temperature - and I have no idea how they work, if they work, etc., so add to that the idea that running the fan on low all the time would make a difference and I'm like, amidst all these other things, who knows... I kind of vaguely recall seeing an infrared imaging of the pack, showing heat distribution. But I can't recall exactly what it proved...

Anyway, I'd recommend an OBDIIC&C, I don't know if I'd recommend going through the trouble of rigging-up a manual switch to control the fan - unless you live in a hot area...

On "charging at idle," as mentioned above: The car will only charge at idle if you've just reset the computers by pulling the 12V neg or a fuse (of if you've just run the pack empty and/or gotten a 'neg recal'). You got some charge and then it quit, and that can be perfectly normal. The battery computer doesn't always or perhaps normally charge to full after a reset. I've done this recently and at least a couple times I saw the same thing: the car charged at idle about 10% and then stopped (I think it charged from a nominal 19.9% to 30.4% and then quit). It only continued to charge when I forced it to by revving the engine at or above 3000 RPM. If I had driven immediately after the idle-charge stopped, it probably would have continued to charge if, say, I were cruising along without much variation in speed. And it should charge when you do regen... hmm, you say you got it to 4 bars and then you didn't get regen charge, that's odd.

You should do the blink code thing, find out what trouble codes you got, exactly. They might still be there, in the computers, despite not seeing the trouble lights...

On grid charging, personally, I've found discharging to be way more important than the charging, and then, it's not just any discharging. But, the alternatives have seemed too complicated to catch on, so I really don't get into it any longer, and I let people do, say, the 3 cycle thing that Hybridautomotive recommends.

Oh yeah, one more thing: If/when your pack doesn't last "8 years," you can just bypass it, go gas-only, until you do your K20 swap. Gas-only isn't that bad at all; it actually has some benefits, like you can get rid of the 75 lbs pack, or even more if you get a meanwell power supply to replace the DCDC (the Insight's 'alternator') and remove all the stuff 'on the left'. The weight difference actually makes quite a performance difference, feels much more spry in handling, for instance.
 

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So what all does the OBDIIC&C allow you to do. After having the car run without IMA at all yesterday then the IMA functioning totally normally today. I would like to figure out how to wire in a switch that allows me to bypass or control when the IMA assist comes in. Theres a long uphill on my commute to work and the IMA tries to kick in but it really isnt necessary. I just let the car slow down and keep the active fuel economy guage between 50 and 75.

It's funny you mention discharging. I was thinking about getting a discharg/charge system set up so once a week or bi-weekly I can cycle the battery to keep it balanced. Is this something that helps maintain battery health like with other rechargeable devices?
 
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