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Discussion Starter #1
Just picked up an insight. This is my first one. I have driven it a little on the backroads and noticed some problems.

1. It seems like it doesn't want to go much faster than 60. (Flooring it in 5th). I understand how slow a 3 cylinder will be, this thing is really struggling to hwy speeds.

- I just cleaned the EGR plate today and haven't test driven it yet. Didn't appear to be too clogged. To me, it feels like a clogged cat (which is what the previous owner said was wrong with the car).....but the CEL is on for....

2. CEL is on for p0134 and p1162 codes. After research it appears that these are both from the LAF/Front o2 sensor and that you need to buy from Honda since they are different than a traditional o2. If there are other name brands that work, let me know.

Also, it appears that the up stream o2 has been replaced recently, but imo the wires remind me of the cheapo ones that I have used on other vehicles. Does the LAF sensor and regular 02 sensor look different? If so, how can you tell.

Lastly, since the upstream o2 isn't working, it doesn't rule out that the cat isn't bad. So, if the upper cat is bad, will it ruin a new LAF sensor?

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Just to be clear. The insight is a 2001 w/ manual trans and 220k.

The upstream o2 appears new-ish. The hex part of it shows that it isn't brand new, but the wires are very clean and not weathered like you see on an older one.
 

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Sounds like CAT problems to me.
A good "redneck" mechanic should be able to fix the cat problem.
 

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Sounds like CAT problems to me.
A good "redneck" mechanic should be able to fix the cat problem.
hahaha. Let's say a redneck fixed it in a redneck way....does the loss of back pressure hurt MPGs? I know some cars like that.

Also, would the front o2 still need to be replaced?
 

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Maybe O2 sensor leading to cat problems. Lets imaging this scenario.

1) Primary O2 sensor goes bad.
2) Owner replaces it with cheap non genuine or incorrect type and it doesn't work so still has error codes.
3) Drives it around for thousands of mile with car stuck in rich mixture mode and clogs cat.


My advice.

1) Find out exactly what primary/LAF sensor you have fitted, if not correct change it for the right one... (Sounds like it's dead so you will have to change it anyway)

2) Remove the Cat and check for clogging, try and clean it with soda or whatever else is recommended for that.

3) Maybe do the secondary O2 sensor spacer fooler trick to get rid of the P0134.

4) Buy a secondhand cat if yours is clogged..

5) Do the redneck cat hack if all else fails to unclog it and you can't afford another ..
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Redneck fix on first. Definitely picked up power. Did live data on scan tool and the LAF o2 was picking up a signal. Now, that doesn't mean I won't get that code back.

I pulled it out and it is a "NGK L2H2". Now, from looking up, I can't tell if that is a NGK 24300 or 24301. iirc, One is for the CVT and one is for the manual?

After redneck fix, I definitely had some more power. Then ran open exhaust after the 1st cat to test the 2nd. It ran better, but it still seems like I'm down some power.

It does have newer spark plugs with "B" stamped on the end. They are NGK ILZFR5A......Not sure if those are the correct ones, but seem like they could be. I need to double check the engine code. The car also has a newer/clean air filter.

I can get the car up to about 80mph on the backroad. Yesterday, I couldn't do much more than 60. I don't have plates so I can only do so much. I have noticed that if I'm going 60 and put it in 5th, forget about trying to get to 80mph. It seems to get there, I have to run each gear to about 3500rpms. I've never driven one, but I've driven other 3 cylinder vehicles and don't remember having to run those RPMs to get there.

Another thing I have noticed is that I can't get the desired mpg on the fluctuating mpg gauge thing. At constant throttle, the best I can do is low 50s, but when going down a hill, it jumps, etc. Maybe I won't get the great mpgs until lean burn which I won't get until I fix o2 sensor and p0420 that will probably come up.

Another thing I find interesting is say I'm letting off the gas...say 60mph. If I do that in 5th, the gauge will show closer to 60-70mpg. If I'm in a lower gear, it maxes out the mpgs. I'm assuming there is a fuel cut-off after a certain rpm?

Maybe I just need to get used to how to drive these cars. I'm used to a tdi where I can lug it at 800 rpms. Im not sure if I like the way it drives.

Last thing is the car has a slight tick. Mainly at idle. I adjusted the valves. I know some engines are "noisier" than other engines. Plus I'm hyper aware of ticking noises. Sounds like top end of cylinder one. I'll figure that out later.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I've done a lot of reading on the ticking. Sounds like a normal thing on these. Also read the pistons have short skirts which cause piston slap so no need to address that on here.
 

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Last thing is the car has a slight tick. Mainly at idle. I adjusted the valves. I know some engines are "noisier" than other engines. Plus I'm hyper aware of ticking noises. Sounds like top end of cylinder one. I'll figure that out later.
"Ticking" is normal. These engines "sound like sewing machines" (Ecky).

Adjusted the lifter valves and the engine sounds basically the same. They were only slightly off spec. Almost didn't by the Insight because of the ticking, only to research, ask questions, and find out that it's normal for the Insight's engine. Wouldn't hurt to adjust the valves -- it's pretty easy -- but you're probably fine.
 

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Horn, we meet again :)

I went through this mess on my 2nd Insight... Previous owner drove at least a year with a bad primary O2 sensor, so when I took ownership, I was getting a P1420, a pending P0420 along with the upstream O2 sensor code. During this state, I was unable to get into lean burn. After replacing my upstream O2 sensor, it was able to lean burn, but required much more throttle and it seemed to be "bogged" down at high way speeds compared to my first Insight, so I removed my primary and secondary catalytic converters to inspect them and both worth clogged/falling apart inside. After I replaced both cats, associated gaskets, primary and center O2 sensors and it finally ran like new again. I got $70 for my old cats at a recycling center.

FYI, I believe this is the cheapest source for catalytic converters and O2 sensors so long that you use a 20% off coupon code: https://www.autopartswarehouse.com/
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Horn, we meet again :)

I went through this mess on my 2nd Insight... Previous owner drove at least a year with a bad primary O2 sensor, so when I took ownership, I was getting a P1420, a pending P0420 along with the upstream O2 sensor code. During this state, I was unable to get into lean burn. After replacing my upstream O2 sensor, it was able to lean burn, but required much more throttle and it seemed to be "bogged" down at high way speeds compared to my first Insight, so I removed my primary and secondary catalytic converters to inspect them and both worth clogged/falling apart inside. After I replaced both cats, associated gaskets, primary and center O2 sensors and it finally ran like new again. I got $70 for my old cats at a recycling center.

FYI, I believe this is the cheapest source for catalytic converters and O2 sensors so long that you use a 20% off coupon code: https://www.autopartswarehouse.com/
Haha! Yes good friend. It started about 9 years ago with me asking you info on swapping a trans on a metro. Now, it's the insight. All I need to do is find a girl that works for GM...haha.

Well, the first cat won't be sold due to modifications, but the 2nd can be. I really hope that first o2 code pops up. I'm debating on whether to drive this or my jetta tdi. The tdi is just so damn nice on the hwy and comfortable.

The 1st o2 has been replaced recently. I messaged NGK/NTK to find out which o2 sensor it is. I did find a Honda OEM one on ebay for cheap so I may go with that if cheaper. I look up the site you posted. I appreciate it.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
From what I saw, everything looks simple under the hood so I wouldn't expect the clutch to be too bad.

Previous owner replaced the clutch on mine about 3 or 4 years ago. She said something about an oil leak back there and they decided to replace the clutch too. (I have every reason to believer her based on being able to verify other work she claimed was done.) I assume the oil leak she was talking about was the rear main.

As of right now, my synchros work very well. I'll look up the mod.

Aren't those sensors the wrong ones? The Ebay link was a denso was a 234-9013.....I thought the correct one was a 234-5050? I have just read that these cars are picky on the LAF sensor.

In terms of the auto-parts-wharehouse, you were referring to the cheap Bosch 15401? If so, I thought Bosch used a different one for the insight. I could be wrong, but those do appear to be for early 2000s Accords and all that. If it does work, might as well just go to a junk yard and snag a few used ones to try.

Thanks for the links
 

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Discussion Starter #15
*Update*

Another test drive. Check Engine Light is on. P0420 - cat code.

I found this interesting though. I had the car idling for a while. When I first plugged in the scan tool, I had some pending codes. p1165 ....A/F ratio sensor...so the o2 sensor. But, I drove the car a while and it disappeared. The only one after driving 25 mins was the cat code.

I'll have to look into this some more. The previous codes from yesterday were saying that the upstream o2 was pretty much bad so I'm confused. Would be nice if it is actually good.

Also, ran it hard and had it up to 86mph....I was scared to get to 88mph because of Back To The Future. Really, I just ran out of room. Seemed like it was still climbing so that is promising.

If you get on it, it actually surprises you for what it is. It seems like it pulls really well until about 30mph, then slows, then pulls again.

Also, why in the hell does the car pull so hard in first. I'm not even trying to take off quick and it wants to pull. 0-10mph seems to go by quickly....
 

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Aren't those sensors the wrong ones? The Ebay link was a denso was a 234-9013.....I thought the correct one was a 234-5050? I have just read that these cars are picky on the LAF sensor.

In terms of the auto-parts-wharehouse, you were referring to the cheap Bosch 15401? If so, I thought Bosch used a different one for the insight. I could be wrong, but those do appear to be for early 2000s Accords and all that. If it does work, might as well just go to a junk yard and snag a few used ones to try.

Thanks for the links
I'm not positive now, but I scoured the forums and RockAuto and determined a list of ~5 primary O2 sensors that work and I landed on that 234-9013 due to price. If you find any under $100 it's most likely used or wrong.

This is the one I was referring to on the other website: https://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/Honda/Insight/AC_Delco/Oxygen_Sensor/2003/Base/3_Cyl_1-dot-0L/AC2132844.html It would be $104 shipped after discount code.
 

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You say this car is an 01. If you had a primary cat failure and gutted the first one, you probably need to gut the second one as well. When the first one fails, the debris clogs the second one. You then need to add a spark plug anti-fouler to the second O2 sensor. I know of about 5 cars that have had this issue.

You can get an anti-fouler yourself or I do sell them.
https://www.insightcentral.net/forums/buy-sell-insight-related-items/115130-spark-plug-anti-foulers.html

The P0420 is being read by the second O2 sensor letting you know the cat is below efficiency. The anti-fouler moves the sensor back out of the direct stream of exhaust and usually makes the code go away.

I would not purchase a new primary O2 sensor until I did the above and test drove it more. Also, I would only replace the primary O2 sensor with a NTK 24301. Don’t purchase some other one just because of price.

HTH,
Scott
 

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Horn, how many wires does your #1 sensor have? If the wires have been spliced, how many wires are in the engine side connector?

Sam
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks all.

I forgot to mention that i purchased an extended o2 fouler follower last night. Will be in around xmas, but wont get back to my car until after xmas.

I plan on replacing the rear cat soon with a pipe. may weld in a generic one if Im in the mood. It doesn't feel as plugged as the front was based on road testing.

Im waiting a response from NGK. The front o2 is very new. I just need to verify it is the correct one.

As of now, just playing the waiting game. Thanks everyone.
 
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