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Discussion Starter #1
Greetings.

I recently purchased a 2000 insight (mt+ac, 30Kmi). It's a joy to drive - our prius has sat in the garage since we got the insight.

A few days ago, the check engine light flashed when I was driving. I checked the DTC's and it had a P0134 (generic code=02 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank I Sensor 1)). The light stayed off for a few days, then the car started running roughly, the light went on again and it had the P0134 as well P0300, P0301, P0302, P0303 (cylinder misfires random/multiple, 1,2,3).

I'm assuming that it's a bad sensor, but it isn't clear from the code whether it's the oxygen sensor or the laf sensor. I've visually checked the sensor wiring and it appears to be in good shape. I'm guessing that it's the heater in the laf sensor and that the laf sensor is the one before the catalytic converter, but those are both guesses. I figured I'd ask before I started randomly replacing $300 parts. The local dealer wants $80 to check the codes and $60 to replace the sensor! Given these outlandish labor costs, just replacing the sensor myself seems to make a lot of sense.

1) Is the P0134 the laf sensor or the oxygen sensor?
2) Is the laf sensor the one before the catalytic converter - the one that's right on top and easy to get to?
 

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Hi ecofriend and welcome to the forum :!: :)

Your barking up the right tree. Indeed bank1, sensor 1 is the primary (LAF type in an Insight) O2 sensor and is the "easy" one to reach.

However, and given your misfire symptoms your choice in delaying further diagnosis is playing Russian roulette with the CAT (Catalytic converter, Over $1,000 in parts alone :shock: ). And accurately diagnosing O2 sensors is an advanced skill, especially the LAF type.

O2 sensors (including the LAF type) have independent heater circuit checking and different codes for that failure. Heater circuit codes are pretty straightforward diagnosis, most of the time. But when the sensors output is in doubt it can get _very_ tricky to correctly identify the cause. Virtually anything that affects the combustion process can create "bad" O2 sensor data and a resulting code. And the O2 sensor can be just fine.

IMO you need to find a skilled technician that knows how to correctly approach diagnosing your overall problem. And don't wait too long (miles wise) else the misfire condition can ultimately destroy an otherwise serviceable (fit for continued operation indefinitely) CAT.

There are several old threads along these lines. Search the forums if your interested in continuing on the DIY path.

HTH! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Insightful Trekker said:
Hi ecofriend and welcome to the forum - Thanks! It's good to be here.

"delaying further diagnosis is playing Russian roulette" - Good to know. I've only driven ~20 miles since the misfire codes appeared. The 0134 code flashed about a month ago, I took it to a garage and they said "it's intermittent, it hasn't recurred - ignore it."

Have you ever dealt with http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com? They have what appears to be an OEM Honda LAF sensor for $210 ($230 w/tax & shipping), as opposed to $300 from my local dealer?

How much risk am I taking if I replace the LAF sensor, clear the codes and only take it to a tech if the codes recur?
 

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Its misfires and or "bad" O2 sensor data (with or without the misfire) that can and has been reliably reported in here to have damaged CATs. And "bad" O2 sensor data can / has been shown to occur _without_ setting _any_ codes :!: :shock:

Its a complex diagnosis and one that only the best technicians out there are up to. (re-read my reply above)

Risk :?: $1000+ for a replacement CAT that could otherwise be "saved".

Your link is to one of several on-line Honda parts suppliers (usually a dealership). IIRC no "problems" with them, but the few that do have problems with any business transaction swear their the worst and will never do business again. <shrug>
(Disclaimer: I have no personal, professional or business relationship with any on-line Honda parts sources)(but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night. :!: ;) :p )

HTH! :)
 
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