[jgessling]

What do you do when the dealer replaces the wrong part? 2001 MT insight

Here's what happened:

1) December 2006, check engine light (CEL) on, code P0420. Dealer suggested cat was failing. I was monitoring situation. CEL came on and off occasionally. Decided I better do something about it.

2) January 10th 2007, went to dealer, verified P0420 code, suggested cat replacement. Work done.

3) May 22, 2007 had my car into an independent shop for clutch replacement. Clutch work done. Duing their test drive, CEL on, code P0420.

4) Shop called me about CEL. I mentioned that cat recently replaced. Mechanic said didn't look like cat had been touched. Hmmm.

5) I looked up paper work from dealer. It said cat part number: 18160-PHM-A00, description "converter" replaced.

6) Independent mechanic did some research, here's his conclusion.

a) dealer part number was for rear cat, there are two. One right near exhaust manifold, one further back.
b) on 2001 MT there are only two sensors: at intake and output of first cat. The second sensor sets the P0420 code. There is no sensor monitoring rear cat. ( there is a third sensor monitoring the rear cat on 2002-2006 MT models)

So... code was for failure of front cat, dealer replaced rear.

Is this analysis correct? What do you'all think I should do?

Regards, Jim
'01 #191

p.s. I'm guessing the wrong cat got ordered and when it arrived the tech simply replaced it.

Majestic Honda web page lists "converter kit" for front cat and "converter" for rear.

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/aut ... HAUST+PIPE

If you look at other years, you'll see the third sensor.

 

[HafNHaf]

who paid for the cat replacement?

 

[jgessling]

cat replacement

Me. $834 for parts. $125 labor. This is not a warranty situation, mileage was 179k.

Regards, Jim
'01 #191

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Based on your information dealer "oopsed" and replaced the wrong CAT. Clearly they "owe" you the right CAT, but maybe only the parts price "difference". IMO the labor oops is 100% theirs.

Back to the dealer. :|

Personally I find that you get better results if you let them determine the error on their own, but be ready to drop the bomb (firmly but politely) should their second diagnosis fail to pass muster.

HTH!

Please keep the group informed on your progress.

 

[HafNHaf]

i would certainly take the car back to the dealer, with all your research, and find out what they are going to do about:

1. Not fixing the problem that was setting the code, and

2. Fixing something that was not broken, and charging you about a grand for the mistake.

IMHO, they owe you a cat. PERIOD!

 

[bfivelover]

IMHO, they owe you a cat. PERIOD!

I concur. They should replace the cat for free since it was their mistake, You have already paid for it. Not your fault they screwed up.

 

[Aaron Cake]

What do you do when the dealer replaces the wrong part? 2001 MT insight

You say this as if the dealer could ever replace the right part...

1) December 2006, check engine light (CEL) on, code P0420. Dealer suggested cat was failing. I was monitoring situation. CEL came on and off occasionally. Decided I better do something about it.

Could be caused by the cat, LAF sensor, or secondary O2 sensor. If the cat is replaced and the LAF is still bad, the cat will be killed again. If the secondary O2 sensor is bad, then you'll get the code even if you replace the cat and LAF sensor. This is where the dealer's method of "replace what the code says" fails.

4) Shop called me about CEL. I mentioned that cat recently replaced. Mechanic said didn't look like cat had been touched. Hmmm.

There are two cats on the 2001 5 speed; a three way cat and a NOX cat. According to the service manual, when replacing one, they MUST be replaced as a set.

a) dealer part number was for rear cat, there are two. One right near exhaust manifold, one further back.
b) on 2001 MT there are only two sensors: at intake and output of first cat. The second sensor sets the P0420 code. There is no sensor monitoring rear cat. ( there is a third sensor monitoring the rear cat on 2002-2006 MT models)
So... code was for failure of front cat, dealer replaced rear.

Correct. The TWC is monitored by the secondary O2 sensor, while the NOX cat has no monitor.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

There are two cats on the 2001 5 speed; a three way cat and a NOX cat. According to the service manual, when replacing one, they MUST be replaced as a set.

True but needs qualification.

When the _primary_ CAT is replaced the secondary must be also replaced. AFAIK the primary cannot be ordered without the secondary. Which is why this Insighter _needs_ to get back to his dealer ASAP :!:

However, the secondary CAT being relatively unprotected (under the car) is available seperately. Apparently a nice concession by Honda for those few that are road hazard damaged.

HTH!

 

[jgessling]

Cat followup

Insightful Trekker had chided the group a while ago about people not following up so I figured I should. Here's where I'm at.

A number of responses to my original post indicated that the dealer owed me something. I guess I just don't feel that way. I owe it more to myself to live my life. What good feeling would I get if I did battle with the dealer and "won"? Not much.

I have now found a local shop that I can trust. I will use them going forward, as for the dealer, they are not worth my spending any energy thinking about them and I won't be back.

Specifically, the CEL has gone off and stayed off. If it comes back on, the trusted shop and I will decide what to do.

Regards, Jim
'01 #191

 

[solartony]

what insights can you share about finding a reliable third party mechanic ?