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Discussion Starter #1
Back to work on my grandson's 2001 Insight with auto/cvt tranny. After changing out BCM, MCM and battery sticks and putting a 12 hr charge into my junkyard sticks with RB Battery charger, things seemed to be looking pretty good. I had SOC meter holding the state of charge at near 100% after turning the car off, then restarting. IMA system appeared to be charging the battery and using the assist when needed for acceleration. I was still throwing P0560, but I decided to put it back on the road with my grandson at the wheel and see what happened.

It's been on the road for a week, he is very happy, did not mention any issues. I took it out for an errand this morning to see how it was doing and I find that after a couple of minutes of driving, the IMA system light comes on, the charge and assist meters stop showing any activity, but the SOC meter on the battery still shows full charge state.

If I turn off the key, restart the car, ima system is healthy again for a few minutes, then it repeats.

I have codes of P0560 and P1440. CEL blink codes are 69 and 34. IMA blink code is 57.

The good news is that I got 51 mpg on the 50 mile trip without the IMA system and the AC system on.

This is my second thread on this car. I changed out a lot of parts and got rid of earlier codes, except for P0560 which has been steady.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on how to proceed.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #3
This if relevant:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6EDknyr-8unMmFySVBFZXg4b28/view

Note that there are three fuses in the circuit.

Maybe more later.
I have checked fuses under dash, all good. I have checked the fuses under the hood, all good. If any of the fuses for this circuit is not in those two places, I could have missed a blown fuse. I have a voltage meter. Maybe it makes sense to check for the 5v at the ecm and determine if the circuit is powered up? Any ideas as to which wire on which plug should be delivering the 5v to the ECM? Pictures would be much appreciated. I will also keep researching this P0560 question because I have not touched it with everything I have done, so I think there's a good chance that this problem originates in the harness somewhere before the ECM.

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #4
P1440 blink code of 57

says IMA system problem per 99mpg.com blink code reference sheet

??
 

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Both of these codes are strange to me, but I'm not the sharpest troubleshooter around:(

Maybe Peter will see the thread.

I'll see if I can identify a test pin on the ECM for the P0560, soon as I can locate my Electrical Troubleshooting Guide.
 

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Found my Electrical Troubleshooting Guide (Schematics), but I can't find reference to the 5V power distribution. It's a mudder or a retepsnikrep level problem:(
 

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My thoughts..

Assuming all earths and body grounds are all intact and 12v battery good etc etc.

ECM P0560 VBU voltage problem.

The ECM has a couple of internal 12V dc-dc 5v converters.

The one powered by the VBU line (responsible for backup data storage etc) should be live at all times.

Find the VBU pin on the ECM connectors and check that it has 12V power at all times.

If no power, then that's the problem.. (Blown fuse, bad harness etc)
If 12V then :( probably an internal ECM issue. (Try another ECM)

MCM P1440 - 57

An unusual code and it may be a problem with the phase current sensors inside the MDM causing false reporting,
or an actual problem as described in the advanced diagnostics.

Assuming all the connections in the IMA compartment are secure/intact etc and it's not rodents, bad connections etc

1) Have you swapped the original MCM back in? Y/N does the code go/stay away..

2) The simplest way to kill all the rest of birds with one shot will be to swap out the MDM
the big silver box on the left hand side of the IPU compartment with a known good one. There are loads in junkyards over there.

If the same code still recurs then it may be an actual IMA motor problem but I would say that is incredibly unlikely.
 

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@ mcoday. Do you have the Electrical Troubleshooting guide?

(In my strong opinion, no one should not now own these cars without a hard copy of the Electrical Troubleshooting guide and the Service Manual. Without those, trying to fix something is like driving in the dark. They come up from time-to-time on eBay.)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
@ mcoday. Do you have the Electrical Troubleshooting guide?

(In my strong opinion, no one should now own these cars without a hard copy of the Electrical Troubleshooting guide and the Service Manual. Without those, trying to fix something is like driving in the dark. They come up from time-to-time on eBay.)
I don't have the guide. Are we talking about this book?

https://www.amazon.com/INSIGHT-Electrical-Wiring-Diagrams-Troubleshooting/dp/B01K2N1JYK

Looks like 3 of them available at $124 each from amazon right now

going to respond/work on one thing at a time.

Thanks

Mike
 

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I don't have the guide. Are we talking about this book?
Yes, that is the book you need to have the car electrical schematics, component location, plug pin outs, etc., all the things you need to know to work on the electrical system. The Service Manual is separate and more devoted to the hardware.

I'll just tell you, from the Electrical Troubleshooting guide, that the VBU line that retepsnikrep refers to in on pin 21 of plug B at the ECM. I'm sure that won't mean much, and that is the reason you need the manuaI

I don't have time right now to outline how the find the pin, but I'll try to get some pictures for you later.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
"The ECM has a couple of internal 12V dc-dc 5v converters.

The one powered by the VBU line (responsible for backup data storage etc) should be live at all times.

Find the VBU pin on the ECM connectors and check that it has 12V power at all times. "

Ok, I am going to get out the multimeter and and see if I can id the VBU line on the ECM connector and confirm that there is 12v on that line at all times.

12v battery is good. Grounds seem good. No rodent or harness damage that I have found so far. The car is now retaining SOC of the traction battery from one drive cycle to another which suggests to me that the backup data storage may actually be fine and the P0560 may be a bit of a red herring, but I will just set that aside for now and look for the 12v VBU line to the ECM and report back.

I have two spare mcm units on the shelf. I can swap back and forth among the three I have and see what happens on codes with each unit.

Thanks

Mike
 

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Ok, I am going to get out the multimeter and and see if I can id the VBU line on the ECM connector and confirm that there is 12v on that line at all times.
You'll be driving in the dark;)

If you will hold up untill later in the day, I'll try to post a picture of the ECM B plug for you so that you can identify the wire.

Get the Electrical Troubleshooting guide now! Use the time untill I post the picture to order the guide.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
ordered a replacement ecm and it's on the way. My friends and I are trying to get and keep several Gen 1 insights healthy, so I think extra parts on hand are a good idea generally.
 

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VBU Line

OK, below will be a picture of the pin-out for Connector B at the ECM. You will note that the VBU line is pin #21, directly opposite from the locking tab and on the third "line" of pins. You will need to mentally reverse the image if you are probing the backside or wire side of the connector. (i.e. left will be right on the back where the wires are.) Also note that the VBU wire is white with blue stripe.

You seem to know where to find the ECM. Connector B is the second connector up from the horizontal floor of the passenger foot well.

If this isn't all clear, then ask.

OBTW, most meter leads are too "fat" to get the tip down into the plug to touch the back of the metal crimp-on pin. If you have a cheap meter, you can use a Dremel grinder to thin out the probe(changed). If you get no voltage readings anywhere you'll know you aren't reaching the back of the pins. You shouldn't need to remove the connector to do your voltage measurements.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Assuming all earths and body grounds are all intact and 12v battery good etc etc.


MCM P1440 - 57



2) The simplest way to kill all the rest of birds with one shot will be to swap out the MDM
the big silver box on the left hand side of the IPU compartment with a known good one. There are loads in junkyards over there.
ok, I have a line on the MDM for this car. Brent in Toledo says he can send me an entire PDU assembly with IMA subharness and relays or he can just sell me the MDM assembly for $85 plus shipping cost. Do I need the whole assembly or is the MDM assembly all I need?

Thanks

Mike
 

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Ok, I am going to get out the multimeter and and see if I can id the VBU line on the ECM connector and confirm that there is 12v on that line at all times.
Were you able to check this?
 
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