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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All

I have the dreaded P1449 78 Pack deterioration SOC<10% or similar (I'll confirm over lunch). It started with a P1447 I have cycled the pack down to 100V then grid-charged. After a couple of days I now have P1449 and no regen or assist. No sign of the pack overheating and the arror will not reset with the OBDC&C box.

My plan is to try a deeper discharge, 50v, but where to go from there, the 100v cycle was only successful for a couple of days so I'm not expecting miracles from taking it down to 50V.

Any advice appreciated as I'm a bit pushed for time at the moment.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Right, now on the OBDC&C i just get P1449, if i look at the DTC i get '77 1447 XXXX' then the next page, '78 XXXX 0A7F'
I can briefly reset the CEL lamp with the OBDC&C, but the IMA fault flashes it straight back up. I get no charge or regen, OBDC&C shows pack voltage to be 168v from memory.

Make any sense ¿
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Quick update:

Last Thursday i grid charged again, still P1449. I pulled all the battery control unit plugs and got rid of the P1449 code. Car ran ok for 5-6 days then i got P1447 again, sub code 77. I have grid charged over night, now discharging to 25-50v (whatever it gets down to by 9pm) then i will grid charge overnight.
 

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You have likely experienced a cell failure. It is unlikely that the discharge to 50V will provide any benefit and may even make it worse. I hope I'm wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
You have likely experienced a cell failure. It is unlikely that the discharge to 50V will provide any benefit and may even make it worse. I hope I'm wrong.

Well I've taken the pack down to 33v, charging will commence shortly. I hope its not a duff cell, the pack is only 4.5 years old!
 

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P1449(78 ) is either severe imbalance or a failing cell. If it doesn't respond to grid charging, it's likely a failed/failing cell.
 

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Well I've taken the pack down to 33v, charging will commence shortly. I hope its not a duff cell, the pack is only 4.5 years old!
Time to measure the voltage taps with a meter.
Note the readings on the ten taps and post them here..

Is it one of my BB packs?

If it is there is some good news, as if we can locate the duff cell/stick easily I will let you have a spare one foc, you just pay postage.. Or I will fix it for you at my place for the cost of the stick..
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hi Peter

Yes its one of your packs. The offer of a replacement stick is very much appreciated.

Where is easiest to measure the voltage taps? Is it best done on a freshly charged or part discharged pack? Job for the weekend i hope.
 

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Charge it then check it after a couple of hours resting, then check it again after a day or so if possible. Keep checking every day or so if possible so we can build up a picture. Note all the voltages and post here..

As we now know repeated grid charging can stress older BB sticks mechanical integrity leading to leakage. I suspect you might have a leaking /failed cell as Steve mentions..

So if this next session has no effect it def needs to come apart to avoid damaging other sticks in a forlorn hope of fixing it. Don't continue to charge/cycle it......

Measure the taps at the BCM voltage tap connector plug..
 

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Discussion Starter #12
didn't manage to check the taps before driving to work, but I will update the thread with daily voltage readings.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Since grid charging for 11 hours, I've driven 45 miles, then pootled around for 10 miles for work in which the P1444 came on, then driven 45 miles home.

Cell-strip pair voltages:
Total Pack Voltage 160.6V
C09-C20: 16.0V
C20-C07: 16.0V
C07-C18: 16.0V
C18-C05: 16.0V
C05-C16: Sweet FA, less than a volt dropping to nothing quickly on the meter
C16-C15: 16.0V
C15-C14: 16.0V
C14-C13: 16.1V
C13-C12: 16.1V
C12-C11: 16.0V
C11-C10: 16.0V

I'm also getting between pack taps and ground 20v quickly dropping through the meter to about 0.4V.

I think I can see where the issue may be!!! Peter, where do you suggest we go from here?
 

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High voltage short circuit indicates leaking cells :(

Check for voltage between the taps and the ptc circuit..

Taking it out and taking it apart is the only option now..

I'm moving house at the moment so stuff is all over the place.

I suggest you disassemble it if you feel confident and report back.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
There is voltage between the PTC circuit and cell taps. C18 to PTC i get 0V, but this rises to 9-10V by the time you get C9 and 43v by the time you get to C10 at the other end of the pack.

Looks like I'm pulling the pack out over the weekend! Could you supply me another stick if I PM you an address and can you take paypal to cover postage?
 

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I can but am away at the moment and we need some pics and further strip down diagnosis before we know what we need. I won't be able to post a stick if needed until wednesday at the earliest. e-mail me...
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Right I've started charging the sticks individually, I'm using the SkyRC Imax B6v2 (AC) chargers because I have 3 of them from work to run in parallel. These are my setting if anyone cares to comment:

6A charge 2A discharge (that is as much as it will give realistically I'm seeing 5.2A and 0.9A)
Delta peak of 5mV (lowest setting on the charger) peaking twice.
Max charge 7Ah (coulomb counted from current and time)
No time limit to charge or discharge

So most of the old sticks are coming up at 4.5-5Ah (one outlier at 2.5Ah.. so far), a couple never peaked and shut off at 7Ah, all the 'new' sticks from Peter ran to 7Ah. I've given the 'New' sticks 3 cycles and the old sticks a single discharge charge cycle.

I plan to rest the sticks for a day and then check sitting voltages and pair them from the extreme values to try and maintain the best possible stick pair voltage match across the pack.

Is there any mileage in doing a high power discharge on the sticks, I have a programmable load that is good to about 400W 80A which I can use to beast the sticks and compare their discharge characteristics under load, does this give me any useful info for selecting sticks for the pack rebuild. I only have one spare stick to reject (I was going with the lowest Ah one here, as one came up at 2.5Ah before peaking).

any thoughts?
 

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Can you up the max counted charge from 7Ah that's barely enough to fill the sticks especially if empty like mine probably were..
I would say 8Ah minimum..

Try them under 80A load all at the same temperature (at least 20C) and same approx soc if possible.
Say 10 second discharge, note starting resting V (Load Off) and end voltage just before load is turned off (Load On).

The stick pair voltages have to stay close under load in the car, so a load test will reveal any sticks that drop out of line.
Ideally you want the individual stick voltages to match to within 50mv variance under load, lower variance is better.

Then the stick pairs have to match with each other under load to within 100mv if possible.
Select your pairs to try and achieve lowest resting variance and lowest under load variance. Not an easy task..

I suggest create an excel spreadsheet to analyse the data and select the sticks/pairs for you.
We can also look at the data and advise..

Your duff 2.5ah stick may well have been the one that threw the pack out with the low capacity code etc originally.
Then grid charging etc took out a few of the weaker sealed sticks.
 
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