One can only assume it now works, and that you did a "oops".
Willie
Willie
Pictures and Tips From My 5 Speed Input Shaft Bearing Replacement
161 - 180 of 281 Posts
For the record the exact problem with my transmission reassembly was that I installed the 5th gear selector incorrectly as the larger teeth were not aligned properly with the underlying gear. This was easily fixed after removing the entire transmission again, splitting it, cleaning it, and rotating one godforsaken shift selector ring 30 degrees.
Here are some videos of me checking the shift selectors. It should give you a good idea if you are a newbie about how tricky this can seem at first. Once you figure out the linkages and the levers I was fairly easily able to shift through all the gears and better understand how the shift mechanism works which at first seems like a black box of magic.
The second time it did take me only about 6 hours from removal to reinstall, compared to about 24 hours my first time. I feel I did a much better job the second time. I took a bunch of photos/videos of the process, syncro modification, and ISB replacement which I will try and put into one concise post in the future.
I drove the car to work this morning and it ran great transmission wise. No weird noises, nothing leaking, and nothing was too warm when I arrived. I am getting a little wobble (like an unbalanced tire) from the front wheels over 60 mph. Any ideas on this? It wasn't there before. I suspect I may have tweaked a CV joint which seemed really easy to do, but maybe it is something else.
Thanks again for your help. I could not have done it without this forum.
Here are some videos of me checking the shift selectors. It should give you a good idea if you are a newbie about how tricky this can seem at first. Once you figure out the linkages and the levers I was fairly easily able to shift through all the gears and better understand how the shift mechanism works which at first seems like a black box of magic.
The second time it did take me only about 6 hours from removal to reinstall, compared to about 24 hours my first time. I feel I did a much better job the second time. I took a bunch of photos/videos of the process, syncro modification, and ISB replacement which I will try and put into one concise post in the future.
I drove the car to work this morning and it ran great transmission wise. No weird noises, nothing leaking, and nothing was too warm when I arrived. I am getting a little wobble (like an unbalanced tire) from the front wheels over 60 mph. Any ideas on this? It wasn't there before. I suspect I may have tweaked a CV joint which seemed really easy to do, but maybe it is something else.
Thanks again for your help. I could not have done it without this forum.
Congratulations, so now the wobble.
The wobble is caused because you have dislocated the inner CV joint on one of both sides. One of the the three bearings on the inner joint has popped off the yoke.
You can run the car up in the air and usually tell which one or both because the axel will look out of round. While the car is in the air you car run it in gear and watch the axels near the transmission with a flash light.
You will need to pull the affected axels and it it best to fix them on the bench. You can release the large metal band clamp from the axel boot and put the bearings back on the yoke, it takes a little fiddling to get them lined up correctly. Then you can get the boot back on and reuse the clamp.
When done at the bench be careful taking it back to the car for reinstallation not to pull it back out of joint.
HTH,
Scott
The wobble is caused because you have dislocated the inner CV joint on one of both sides. One of the the three bearings on the inner joint has popped off the yoke.
You can run the car up in the air and usually tell which one or both because the axel will look out of round. While the car is in the air you car run it in gear and watch the axels near the transmission with a flash light.
You will need to pull the affected axels and it it best to fix them on the bench. You can release the large metal band clamp from the axel boot and put the bearings back on the yoke, it takes a little fiddling to get them lined up correctly. Then you can get the boot back on and reuse the clamp.
When done at the bench be careful taking it back to the car for reinstallation not to pull it back out of joint.
HTH,
Scott
Quick Tip:
While driving, when going from autostop to engine start use the gas pedal to start the engine just before releasing the clutch.
Saves wear and tear on the gears and forks.
It takes a little co-ordination, but it shifts a lot easier.
HTH
Willie
While driving, when going from autostop to engine start use the gas pedal to start the engine just before releasing the clutch.
Saves wear and tear on the gears and forks.
It takes a little co-ordination, but it shifts a lot easier.
HTH
Willie
Here are a couple photos, below.
With pliers you can pinch the band clamp and it will release. After you take the joint apart and put the boot back on you can line the clamp up and squeeze it and re-hook it.
Here is a picture of the yoke and one of the bearings. You have knocked the bearing off and can put it back on. Be sure to look at the other bearings that are on the yoke as there is a top and bottom. (It may not be correct in my picture below).
By the way, please send a second twelve pack ?.
HTH,
Scott
With pliers you can pinch the band clamp and it will release. After you take the joint apart and put the boot back on you can line the clamp up and squeeze it and re-hook it.
Here is a picture of the yoke and one of the bearings. You have knocked the bearing off and can put it back on. Be sure to look at the other bearings that are on the yoke as there is a top and bottom. (It may not be correct in my picture below).
By the way, please send a second twelve pack ?.
HTH,
Scott
Attachments
Scott, All,
In record time, now with a clean garage and clear mind I was able to identify and correct the CV wobble in less than an hour. As I suspected and you confirmed the passenger side (most likely to overextend IMO) had one bearing which fell off it's stem. The first time I messed with taking out the transmission even removing the axles was a daunting task. Everything was a fair bit seized and I didn't know what I was doing. A few tips for others out there based on my experience:
1) Break the lug nuts and axle nut with the car on the ground. Remove the axle nut and give the axle a few good taps with the car on the ground to make sure it is loose, if not you may be pounding pretty hard on a car that is jacked up and less stable (obviously don't/you can't pound the axle out).
2) Jack up the car relatively high so you have room to work. Most floor jacks are not enough to even get the car on jack stands. I jacked the driver side and use a smaller stand under the lower a-arm mount, this allows you to jack up the drivers side with a 4x4 wood block (actually lifting the entire passenger and driver side of the car) so you can then slip a standard jack stand under the rear frame a-arm mount.
3) Even with the upright bolts out the clearance to get the axles out is almost nothing, you really do have to twist the wheel cv joint to the max. Don't get frustrated, just keep maneuvering it and it will pass underneath the abs wire.
4) the axle should be lightly pried out of the transmission with a pry bar rather trying to pull it out. Once pried 1 cm it will slide right out. Oil may come out of the transmission so have a rag or bucket ready.
5) Once the axle is out it is really easy to take off the boot clips with a standard pliers and fix the bearings. Do not be scared of this step, just set everything over a clean surface in case you drop something. Do not add grease to the boot, it should have enough and it is special grease.
6) To reassemble the CV joint once everything is in position it does require a light tap to push the bearings into the groves on the axle.
I now have two remaining minor issues which I will bring to another thread. First I must have damaged my ABS wire or sensor at some point removing or installing the axles. Second I still have a very small drivetrain noise which correlates with my speed. Maybe it is the tires or the brakes or the bearings.
Thanks again for all the help, this has been an extremely frustrating at first but unbelievable rewarding experience in the end.
In record time, now with a clean garage and clear mind I was able to identify and correct the CV wobble in less than an hour. As I suspected and you confirmed the passenger side (most likely to overextend IMO) had one bearing which fell off it's stem. The first time I messed with taking out the transmission even removing the axles was a daunting task. Everything was a fair bit seized and I didn't know what I was doing. A few tips for others out there based on my experience:
1) Break the lug nuts and axle nut with the car on the ground. Remove the axle nut and give the axle a few good taps with the car on the ground to make sure it is loose, if not you may be pounding pretty hard on a car that is jacked up and less stable (obviously don't/you can't pound the axle out).
2) Jack up the car relatively high so you have room to work. Most floor jacks are not enough to even get the car on jack stands. I jacked the driver side and use a smaller stand under the lower a-arm mount, this allows you to jack up the drivers side with a 4x4 wood block (actually lifting the entire passenger and driver side of the car) so you can then slip a standard jack stand under the rear frame a-arm mount.
3) Even with the upright bolts out the clearance to get the axles out is almost nothing, you really do have to twist the wheel cv joint to the max. Don't get frustrated, just keep maneuvering it and it will pass underneath the abs wire.
4) the axle should be lightly pried out of the transmission with a pry bar rather trying to pull it out. Once pried 1 cm it will slide right out. Oil may come out of the transmission so have a rag or bucket ready.
5) Once the axle is out it is really easy to take off the boot clips with a standard pliers and fix the bearings. Do not be scared of this step, just set everything over a clean surface in case you drop something. Do not add grease to the boot, it should have enough and it is special grease.
6) To reassemble the CV joint once everything is in position it does require a light tap to push the bearings into the groves on the axle.
I now have two remaining minor issues which I will bring to another thread. First I must have damaged my ABS wire or sensor at some point removing or installing the axles. Second I still have a very small drivetrain noise which correlates with my speed. Maybe it is the tires or the brakes or the bearings.
Thanks again for all the help, this has been an extremely frustrating at first but unbelievable rewarding experience in the end.
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8,685 Posts
Does anyone have a link to a good description of the 'tabectomy' process? I know I've seen it explained somewhere before*, but...
Also, my clutch feels pretty weak, so I'm replacing the clutch, including release bearing and pilot bearing. Meanwhile, I'm thinking I should probably replace the input shaft bearing and the couple other things Scott mentions in another post above (such as a few seals and 'the bearing on the other end of the input shaft'). My transmission/gear box feels fine, I don't have any problems; but I'm thinking, as long as I have things apart I might as well replace these other parts...
Does that seem reasonable/necessary, even though my transmission 'feels fine'? And then, do you think I should just go ahead and do the 'tabectomy' as a precautionary measure?
I've never taken apart a transmission before, never replaced a clutch either... I have the time to work through it, though I'm hoping it all won't take me more than a few days...
Any guidance greatly appreciated...
*Posts 14 to 31 or so in this thread, started by jimrm, do a pretty good job [http://www.insightcentral.net/forum...ut-shaft-bearing-replacement.html#post206046]. But I'd still be interested in other posts/threads that describe the process, if you know of any...
This PDF can get you started: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByQmsDnxX-S0UWhiMWM3aU5kcGc/view?usp=sharing
Look at Figure 38, you want to extract the countershaft (item #3), remove the nut (reverse thread) and work your way down to the syncros. You're going to need a press, I bought a cheapo at harbor freight and spent a few minutes on youtube watching others do similar procedures.
Once you get to your syncros, you'll use either a rounded file or a dremel tool to remove the 3 tabs.
Here's a pre picture: https://photos.app.goo.gl/6dzgIMXrnInLFIQv1
Here's a post picture: https://photos.app.goo.gl/ejdBBTnVCVJJDeup1
I'll be doing this again real soon myself on my daughters Citrus.
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218 Posts
I'll be doing this soon on my car, thanks for the sharing.
Actually what I wish I had was someone to call when I ran into a problem, like getting out the CV axles or what those little steel balls are that fell out of the transmission. Feel free to text or call me if you are scratching your head on something (see my biography for number).
Joined
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140 Posts
Where is that darn hanger?
So I am yanking the transmission to do the ISB and seals and I made a transmission/engine hanger and set it atop my strut towers, then proceeded to connect it to the hanging tab atop the transmission. I continued with the instructions, then when it came to the step where I was about to remove the last four bolts connecting the tranny to the engine, I realized that once I separated the tranny from the engine, there would be nothing left holding up the engine except for one mount on the passenger side. So I looked over the procedure, and now I see that in figure 15 it shows that the transmission/engine hanging tool is not connected to the tranny, but rather is connected to the engine just behind the oil filler cap. I see nothing on my engine that would enable that. There is not a hook there. There isn't even really a bolt hole that I would want to stick a bolt in and put a hook on. What am I missing?
Way down by the oil pan there is a bracket protruding nearly horizontally that goes by the catalytic converter. Pretty sure that's a bad idea to use that.
I am tempted to simply put wood under the oil pan, but I know those are fragile. Anyone have some input on where that hanger mounts to?
So I am yanking the transmission to do the ISB and seals and I made a transmission/engine hanger and set it atop my strut towers, then proceeded to connect it to the hanging tab atop the transmission. I continued with the instructions, then when it came to the step where I was about to remove the last four bolts connecting the tranny to the engine, I realized that once I separated the tranny from the engine, there would be nothing left holding up the engine except for one mount on the passenger side. So I looked over the procedure, and now I see that in figure 15 it shows that the transmission/engine hanging tool is not connected to the tranny, but rather is connected to the engine just behind the oil filler cap. I see nothing on my engine that would enable that. There is not a hook there. There isn't even really a bolt hole that I would want to stick a bolt in and put a hook on. What am I missing?
Way down by the oil pan there is a bracket protruding nearly horizontally that goes by the catalytic converter. Pretty sure that's a bad idea to use that.
I am tempted to simply put wood under the oil pan, but I know those are fragile. Anyone have some input on where that hanger mounts to?
Joined
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967 Posts
The time I did it, I just placed a piece of wood atop a concrete block, and gently lowered the engine on to it. Worked fine.
I had bought a fancy outfit that was supposed to span the engine bay, but could not find anything convenient to attach, so low tech won the day.
Just my 0.02 worth,
Tim
The std. scissors jack supplied with the vehicle is a good tool for supporting the engine while removing the transmission. With use of wood to take up the spacing and prevent scaring of the oil pan..
HTH
Willie
HTH
Willie
Joined
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140 Posts
Thank you guys. I decided to go ahead and do as you said and just put the wood on a jack under the transmission. I figured I had made this fancy rig to hold the transmission from above, so I might as well use it. So I reattached it to the tab, put the jack I had planned to use to lower the transmission under the engine, and was able to separate them by beating on the tab on the front of the transmission and lifting and lowering that hanging assembly a little. Worked well.
I am still baffled what the shop manual is suggesting to hold the engine up by.
It's amazing how light that transmission is.
I am still baffled what the shop manual is suggesting to hold the engine up by.
It's amazing how light that transmission is.
Joined
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140 Posts
Where is neutral?
To continue the "where's the..." theme, I am having trouble finding neutral. I seem to remember someone stressing having the transmission in neutral before tearing it apart. although I don't see that in the manual, it seems like a good idea.
I am moving the non-spring loaded lever, which seems as though it operates each fork, through all three detents. I am also spinning the input shaft and watching the differential through the holes where the CV shafts would be inserted. At the two extremes of that shift linkage movement the gearing definitely changes. I would expect that in the center position, the differential would do nothing at all since that is neutral. Conversely, it spins, and I can't hold it still with my fingers while spinning the input shaft. Is this normal? Is there enough drag between the gears and syncros and various items on the shafts that it still causes the diff to spin?
To continue the "where's the..." theme, I am having trouble finding neutral. I seem to remember someone stressing having the transmission in neutral before tearing it apart. although I don't see that in the manual, it seems like a good idea.
I am moving the non-spring loaded lever, which seems as though it operates each fork, through all three detents. I am also spinning the input shaft and watching the differential through the holes where the CV shafts would be inserted. At the two extremes of that shift linkage movement the gearing definitely changes. I would expect that in the center position, the differential would do nothing at all since that is neutral. Conversely, it spins, and I can't hold it still with my fingers while spinning the input shaft. Is this normal? Is there enough drag between the gears and syncros and various items on the shafts that it still causes the diff to spin?
I was wondering the same thing. Separately, I disassembled and put everything back together. The setup shifts fine on the bench, but having trouble turning the shafts by hand except if it's in either neutral or 1st gear. Any idea whether something is likely misaligned, or whether it just needs more torque for things to fall into place?
Joined
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1,307 Posts
hey everyone, I am about to attempt a transmission rebuild and fix the synchros because I need to replace my clutch.
There is nothing else wrong with my 2000 manual transmission, that I know of or noticed, and it has 200K miles on it.
My question is what parts should I order? I was going to replace all the bearings but it seems its not recommended by many in this thread or is it for a 200K mile tranny?
Or should I just get the ISB bearing and the clutch throw out bearing and all the rubber seals?
Any other parts I should order that break or I probably should replace for this job?
Should I get the bearings from hondapartsnow.com or buy them cheaper elsewhere?
Thanks.
There is nothing else wrong with my 2000 manual transmission, that I know of or noticed, and it has 200K miles on it.
My question is what parts should I order? I was going to replace all the bearings but it seems its not recommended by many in this thread or is it for a 200K mile tranny?
Or should I just get the ISB bearing and the clutch throw out bearing and all the rubber seals?
Any other parts I should order that break or I probably should replace for this job?
Should I get the bearings from hondapartsnow.com or buy them cheaper elsewhere?
Thanks.
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