[salty1]

Ok-a while back in another thread I expressed my disappointment about my poor mileage and received some decent and helpful reponses.
The problem I had with the mpg still remains and if anything is getting worse.
Here are the facts:
I bought the car as a demonstrator in Auguest 2002 and the car had 5000 miles and mpg at about 45. This is the cvt(automatic).
The present mileage for life of auto, which now has 47K, is 38.7.
I live in a small city in western Mass. and do only 10000 miles of driving a year.
I have got as high as mid to high fifties on trips, and got about 54MPG on a 1 day round trip to New York City(300 miles).
During this summer I was getting only around 40MPG with air conditioning not used much.
In the last few days when the weather has gotten into cooler, I am now getting 34.5 MPG on latest fillup.
I have had the O2 sensor replaced(I believe that is what it is called), bought new tires and inflated tires to 40.
I don't think I am any worse or any better driver than most and have just resigned myself to fact that nothing more can be done;the dealer has done all of the necessary tests, and that is reason why sensor was replaced in the first place;it had a slight effect initially but didn't last.
Is this a lost cause or is there anything else I can do?
Part 2 of my question is this:
In the event I want to buy another car-another Hybrid(I am going to need one with a backseat soon), does anyone know or believe that my 2002 Honda Insight might be worth holding on to since there were not many made for that year(does anyone know how many 2002 CVT's were actually manufactured?) and that it might be worth a lot more some day.
Also, assuming that I choose to sell it, does anyone think that even though my car has only 47 miles on it, the fact that the mpg is not as good as some others might mean that i will have difficulty selling it?
ps-I think personally part of problem with mpg is that I don't drive it for enough longer trips;the fact that it does fairly well(in fifties0 on longer trips means that the capability is there;on the other hand, seeing that 34.5 today for the last 50 miles since last fillup is depressing.
Thanks in advance for any help/advice offered.

 

[Tranquility]

ps-I think personally part of problem with mpg is that I don't drive it for enough longer trips;the fact that it does fairly well(in fifties0 on longer trips means that the capability is there;on the other hand, seeing that 34.5 today for the last 50 miles since last fillup is depressing.

I think you might be right. The mileage difference in mine is huge. Using the AC set to auto and driving in town during a hot couple weeks I only made about 50 MPG. On the flip side, 100 miles of nearly open road at 40 mph netted me 98 MPG.

I've never driven a CVT, but like you said, open road netted you the expected mileage. I find getting good mileage in the city to be very difficult. In fact, I doubt I'm getting the rated 60 MPG even on my best days. All the starting and stopping. The drive-thru. No chance.

 

[dice]

I'm on my 3rd tank on my '01 insight. It had a LTM of 56.6 mpg when I bought it. My 1st tank, I got 61 mpg, my 2nd tank 63 mpg. my 3rd tank I'm getting 68 mpg. Stop and go will kill the mileage for sure. Don't understand my the original owners mileage was so low, but he did live in a higher population density area, with more traffic back ups and so forth. Your best bet might be to trade in your insight when you are getting the new car, since the insight seems to be holding its value.

 

[salty1]

Thanks so far-I am still curious as to whether the value of this car will appreciate over the years because of its relative scarcity.
Also, if I do buy a new car, I think I would rather sell it privately rather than trade it for possible better value, but am worried that some might not be interested when they hear the mpg for car is only 38.7 even when I explained that it has no been driven that much and that it is a CVT even though it has got mileage in mid to high fifties on trips.
What do you think?

 

[Tranquility]

LMPG can be reset. I'd be damned before I'd let it stand in the way of a sale.

If I remember correctly without looking it up in the manual, you turn the key to the on position, without the car running. With the LMPG in the FCD display, press and hold the trip button for about 5 seconds until the LMPG begins to flash. Release the trip button. Then press and hold the trip button again until the LMPG clears. You're done.

Selling it yourself is pretty much always worth more than a trade-in, but you need to find a buyer. Sometimes you have time to sell, sometimes not. As for appreciation, it's anybody's guess. More efficient vehicles could be produced. Gas prices could continue to fall. Then its only enhanced value is as a collector's item. Personally, I don't see it as a hot item anytime soon. But, it is the first hybrid. It is pretty unique. And there were not a whole lot of them made. You could wait until they are out of production for a year and see what happens. But a corroded old salty from the northeast isn't going to be drawing top dollar.

Just my random thoughts on the matter.

 

[salty1]

Tranquility-Thanks.
I know I could set back LPMG to zero, but that would be deceptive;I don't want to sell car to anyone under false pretenses.
I am going to think about the entire matter for a while;there is no hurry.

 

[b1shmu63]

Perhaps another Insight owner could help you determine whether your mileage is a result of your driving style and commute or if there is a mechanical or electrical problem with your Insight.

 

[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

I had a recent issue with my front brakes. It turns out that one of the calipers was not moving freely, and was draging. A quick test for this condition is to drive 20 or more highway miles, then feel the aluminum wheel to see if the temperature has increased. When it was draging, my MPG dropped 10-15 MPG, and the wheel temp was pretty hot on that side.
IMHO The value will be directly related to the price of gas. When we get back to $3-4/gal, the value will go up.
I agree with Kip, let another Insight driver take a ride with you, and use their experience to determine if there is something wrong with the car.
Western Ma. has some serious hills and mountains, which I am sure is part of the issue.

 

[salty1]

Thanks again guys;I hadn't considered the brakes as the problem, but I will have them checked.
While it is true that western Mass. has some hills and mountains, that portion is generally speaking further west of where I live, which is relatively flat.
I will see if I can find a fellow Insight driver to sit along side of me while I drive for his take.

 

[merigayle]

I Salty. My CVT gets less than great mpg's but mostly because i drive very little and when i do drive it is mostly city/suburban driving. My lifetime is 49.3 mpg. Also, i live in a hilly area, and depending on where in MA you live, that may play a part in it. Also, colder weather lowers the mpgs.

The bizarre thing is, even though i drive as well as i can and as mindful of the mpgs as i can, my husband drove my car while we were in VT a month ago and got great MPG!!!! :shock: i have no idea how. I told him it was all down hill driving, but on the return trip he got almost as good mpgs. Go figure.

 

[salty1]

Merigayle-thanks for responding.
Our circumstances are roughly similar, but the fact remains you are getting 49.3, whereas I am only getting 38.7.
I live in a relatively small city and other than a few traffic lights, driving is without too many delays.
As stated before, the car is capable of at least mid 50's in summer on a long trip.
However, since last fillup with the cool weather since last fillup mpg is 33.8, hardly anything to shout about.
Obviously the fact that I drive car no more than 200 miles a week with very short trips doesn't help.
Even if I have a "lead foot"(not sure that I do), I would think mpg should be closer to yours.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Obviously the fact that I drive car no more than 200 miles a week with very short trips doesn't help.

IMO that IS the key to your MPG "problem". And any other car driven under that same conditions will have a similar percentage MPG loss. Its just that as a percentage in an Insight the numbers look a lot bigger. And if its a 5spd the minimal availability of lean-burn under your driving conditions makes the percentage loss even greater.

As far as resale value, a buyer can be "easily" shown your LMPG is strictly related to short trips, not aggressive driving. Simply take them on a highway drive and show them its potential.

HTH!

 

[salty1]

When I say short trips, I don't necessarily mean less than a mile. Actually a lot of those short trips are round trips of about 16-18 miles.
I know cold weather has affected all my previous cars;however, the 33.8 I am getting on this fillup(and it has lasted two weeks) is still a bit disconcerting, as it seems to be to be outside of the normal parameters of what others would receive under similar circumstances with a 2002 cvt with only 48000 miles on it.

 

[Getshocked.ca]

Salty

Go to a private mechanic and have them MANUALY test the 02 sensors

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Good reminder Stephen :!:

And I did give him that very advice in his first problem post in another thread.

However, the specifics and the skill / understanding of the technician performing the test is still unclear . :doubt: And since his Insight appears capable of much higher MPG when driven longer highway distances either the sensor is OK, or like Aaron Cake's experience its intermittently failing.

By my read he needs a hyper MPG experienced Insighter to road test it.

HTH!

 

[merigayle]

Some of you hypermilers should rent yourselves out for driving lessons!!

I posted a while back that one tank of gas killed my MPGs, have you refilled at another gas station? The difference on mine was that i was averaging 42mpg.

With the cold weather upon us my mpgs have dropped slightly to 47-48

 

[pqwoieruyt]

the tires that you put on, were they the oem tires?

i just put some blizzak winter tires on my 2003, and though they were 185/60/14's (a bit wider), that dropped my MPG from low 60s with the oem tires under almost any driving conditions (hwy/city) to 48... quite a difference just from tires. needless to say today, i'm having a new set of the oem 165/65/14 tires installed on the car as we speak.

hope this helps, if not, i hope you find an answer to your mpg issues.

mark

 

[salty1]

I have the OEM tires you describe.
One question:
Lets say I am driving in cold weather. Is there any difference to setting econ button on "off" and setting temperature or simply not touching econ. button at all(ie when it shows no display) and simply setting temperature?
I never quite understood this after reading the manualand climate post which was posted here. In short the questionm is I guess is compressor on or not when you don't touch econ. button at all and/or what is best way to set the heat.

 

[LoNOx 1]

i just put some blizzak winter tires on my 2003, and though they were 185/60/14's (a bit wider), that dropped my MPG from low 60s with the oem tires under almost any driving conditions (hwy/city) to 48... quite a difference just from tires. needless to say today, i'm having a new set of the oem 165/65/14 tires installed on the car as we speak

Part of the problem is that with the Blizzak size, the speedo reading is 4.6% too slow. It is turning 859 revs per mile compared to 899 revs stock. When your speedo says 60 mph, you're actually traveling 62.7 mph. Tire calculations are from: http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html
The rest is rolling resistance difference. How is your air pressure?

 

[salty1]

I would still like an answer to the question I posed in a previous post:
One question:
Lets say I am driving in cold weather. Is there any difference to setting econ button on "off" and setting temperature or simply not touching econ. button at all(ie when it shows no display) and simply setting temperature?
I never quite understood this after reading the manualand climate post which was posted here. In short the questionm is I guess is compressor on or not when you don't touch econ. button at all and/or what is best way to set the heat.
To clarify and simply, when I get into my car and it is cold, outside, is there any advantage re:mpg after engine warms up to setting Econ on AC Off and then setting heat to desired temperature or not even touching Econ button(I assume meaning it off) and simply adjusting mode button, temperature and fan. Are they the same or am I better off using the econ button with AC off meaning I assume compressor would not be turned on.
Thanks in advance for responses.