[insightX]

Hi forum, apologize if this topic has been covered already, but I did a quick search and not finding any clear answers. Desperately need some help starting my 2000 Insight.

IMA is dead with no way to charge or replace it at the moment. Bought a brand new 12V battery, but still can't get the car to crank over. From posts I've found, it sounds like the car should just be able to start on 12V if the system dectects IMA battery is dead? Or am I missing some step?

Thanks in advance

 

[Joule]

You have to hold the key in the start position for several seconds before the car will turn over on the 12V. Sometimes as many as 5-7 seconds.

That’s because the back-up starter is a default. The car’s electronics are first looking for the IMA pack as the preferred starting power source. If that isn’t available, next on the check list is the conventional starter, but the car takes a few seconds to determine if the IMA will start it.

 

[Saxjonz]

If you do not plan to utilize the IMA, then you need to open the cover and disconnect two plugs from the inside. YouTube has a couple of videos that if you search disabling IMA you shall find the answer you seek.

 

[Joule]

Actually a lot easier to just pull under hood fuse #18.

 

[insightX]

Thanks for the quick response you guys. Got the flu so haven't been able to reply.

Joule, I did hold the key in start position for 6-10 seconds and still not turning over. I Just hear a click, but the starter doesn't seem to be cranking over. I included an audio clip of the sound it's making. You can hear the fuel pump in the beginning, then the click when I turn the key. I know it sounds like a weak or dead battery, but I've confirmed the battery is good. I even tried starting with booster cables connected to my minivan and I can see the minivan's alternator putting out 14V to the Insight. Still makes the same clicking noise when I try and start. Does the IMA use the same starter as the 12V to crank over the engine? I can start fine when my IMA was still working.

Insight Starter Clicking

Bottom line is the IMA battery is completely dead, but the Battery Module Switch is still in the ON position. I just want to be able to start my car with the 12V battery and still have DC-DC converter charge the 12V so it doesn't die. Basically I want to be able to drive the car indefinitely with a dead IMA battery. Sorry if I'm not explaining it very well

Saxjonz, are you saying I need to disable IMA before the starter will work? If I disable IMA, will the DC-DC converter still charge my 12V? Will try and google what you're referring to, but if you happen to have a link to step-by-step instructions, that'd be great.

Thanks

 

[Joule]

Pull #18 under hood 7.5 amp fuse and you will remove IMA from equation. Brake and 12V warning lights illuminate above 4K rpms and 12 V charging stops, but will all go back to normal with a minute (or less) of dropping below 4k rpms.

That having been said, I wouldn’t be comfortable driving a 5 MT with dead IMA pack. Plenty of folks do it and I am driving a dead-pack CVT right now, but wouldn’t recommend it for a 5 MT.

 

[Gasoline Fumes]

Possibly a bad starter. The IMA does not use the 12v starter, so it can go unnoticed when it stops working. One of my Insights had a bad starter. The 03-05 Civic Hybrid starter is mostly the same and might be easier to get. Also check engine-to-chassis grounds before replacing the starter.

 

[insightX]

Pull #18 under hood 7.5 amp fuse and you will remove IMA from equation. Brake and 12V warning lights illuminate above 4K rpms and 12 V charging stops, but will all go back to normal with a minute (or less) of dropping below 4k rpms.

That having been said, I wouldn’t be comfortable driving a 5 MT with dead IMA pack. Plenty of folks do it and I am driving a dead-pack CVT right now, but wouldn’t recommend it for a 5 MT.

that's a no go. pulled the fuse. turned the key and nothing happened.

 

[insightX]

Possibly a bad starter. The IMA does not use the 12v starter, so it can go unnoticed when it stops working. One of my Insights had a bad starter. The 03-05 Civic Hybrid starter is mostly the same and might be easier to get. Also check engine-to-chassis grounds before replacing the starter.

Does sound like it at this point. I don't know if you had a chance to listen to the audio i uploaded, but would a bad starter still make the clicking noise when i turn the key? how hard is it to replace a starter? I'm somewhat mechanically inclined, but wouldn't be able to do anything too complicated

 

[retepsnikrep]

Have you checked and replaced any bad engine and battery ground straps?
This is a very common issue well documented on here.

 

[Gasoline Fumes]

Does sound like it at this point. I don't know if you had a chance to listen to the audio i uploaded, but would a bad starter still make the clicking noise when i turn the key? how hard is it to replace a starter? I'm somewhat mechanically inclined, but wouldn't be able to do anything too complicated

Yeah, it sounds like the solenoid is working. If you have good grounds, 12v at the big starter terminal, and 12v when trying to crank at the small terminal, the starter is probably bad. Replacement is pretty easy, but it's hiding under the air filter housing. Disconnect the negative battery terminal before removing the starter!

 

[sasmyth]

If the ground-strap is bad(ish) I'd suggest putting your jumper cable negative on the engine side of the ground-strap (or another good engine-connection point) instead of on the 12V battery. I doubt you can get your cables down to the starter itself, but on old car's I've done that as well to eliminate wiring/solenoid problems.

Good Luck!

 

[insightX]

So quick update, I found 3 grounding straps (1 battery terminal, 2 to left of engine). If there's a 4th, I'm not seeing it. One of the engine strap is pretty frayed with only a few strands of wire left on the engine side eyelet. The other one below it was hard to get to, but visually looks OK. I'll replace both and if it still won't start, I'll replace the starter and report back.

Thanks everyone for your help. Really appreciate this community. You guys are rockstars

 

[mudder]

Before you replace the starter, touch a thick wire directly from the battery positive to the starter (i.e. directly at the solenoid). You actually only need a short piece of wire, because there's already a +12V cable bolted directly to the solenoid. If the cabling is good and the starter still won't spin, then it's the starter. You can do a similar test by manually powering the solenoid itself.

 

[insightX]

UPDATE: Thought I'd remove the air filter unit while I wait for the ground straps to arrive. Noticed the large bolted wire housing on the starter is cracked (Photo 1). I assume this is the +12V end of the solenoid? I went to unbolt the wire so I can get a better look and the whole thing broke off with barely any pressure (Photo 2). I'm guessing this is why the engine won't crank over? Looking on Ebay now to find a used starter. If anyone has one they want to sell, I'd be happy to buy it from you.

@mudder is this the +12V bolt that you were suggesting I'd test with a direct +12V cable? There was another smaller wire at the bottom of the starter that can be pulled out. Is that the ground wire? Just wanted to know in case I ever need to test it in the future.

Thanks,
David
(Photo 1)

(Photo 2)

 

[insightX]

Have you checked and replaced any bad engine and battery ground straps?
This is a very common issue well documented on here.

Thanks Peter for catching this. Never thought to check the ground strap.

 

[mudder]

That there be your problem .
Yes, that's the contact I was referring to.