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Yeah, hard to say. I think it would take some pretty bad front mounts to make the replacements feel noticeably better. I replaced my fronts with new and didn't notice a difference, and even with new the slop in the engine/transmission mounts was still unsatisfactory... So basically, even new sucks. The ones I replaced had some minor surface cracking, but it was hard to tell until I got them out. They turned out to be fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
We'll see. From what I know and what you guys are suggesting the mounts seem to be the most likely culprit for my subtle "IMA engagement jerk". And with the rear one being completely torn when I bought the car for who knows how long, it is certain that extra stress was put on the other two. So this seems like it is pretty guaranteed to make some improvement. I'll report back in a few weeks once they're here and installed.
 

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nice. Problem with customer satisfaction is they take a while before they degrade/fail.
 

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Hey everyone thanks again for so much help in the last 4 weeks since I bought this car. I opted for the Bumblebee Beeline battery and bought the upgraded 3 year warranty (thanks @Eli). I've put 150 miles on the car since and have become a bit familiar with the new IMA driving characteristics after being in gas only mode for a month. I have a few questions:

1, There is a slight but noticeable jitter every time the IMA engages, and then I see the ASSIST light up a few bars. It's sort of like the clunk of an automatic tranny shifting on an older car. Is this normal or should it be imperceptible? If this isn't normal, what could the issue be?

2, Even after IMA and a new OEM rear motor mount I am still getting a bit of jerkiness when reversing up a steep hill. Is that normal, and if not what could the issue be? Tranny is super smooth otherwise...upshifts and downshifts...maybe I'm still learning this clutch but I have much experience with MTs so that's hard to believe.

3, After 150 miles on the Bumblebee battery I'm at about half a charge (50%), it started at full but it has slowly depleted. See pic below. I'm not driving it hard at all - getting about 56mpg in the city and since IMA install I've only hammered it a few times to get an idea of what it's capable of. Mostly super gentle driving. Is it supposed to stay mostly charged all the time or is it normal for it to slowly deplete? If that's the case, what happens when it depletes all the way? It's a refurbished battery so it seems that would not be what should be happening but I don't know how these work.

Thanks for your help!!!

I had a BumbleBee IMA battery installed in my Insight about two years ago, and I recall it running like a race car afterwards, in comparison to the performance with a 17 year old Honda battery!
My background is in electronics, so what I'm telling you is strictly based on technology. The BumbleBee batteries use higher capacity (ampere-hours) than the original Honda battery. Higher capacity provides longer 'Assist' operation. The BumbleBee batteries use new, matched cells in the 120 cell battery pack (144 V, total), while Honda replacement, IMA battery packs are made up from remanufactured cells. Using matched cells is very important to overall battery life, since in a large, series-connected battery pack such as these, cells in the 'middle' of the battery pack may short internally, not only dropping the output voltage 1.2 V for every shorted cell, but also reducing the amount of current available.

As far as driving the Insight and its impact on the IMA, my mechanic (who is otherwise very knowledgeable) told me when I purchased the vehicle to pamper it, keeping the battery charged. That is actually the worst thing to do, if maximum life and performance is desired from the IMA battery! The IMA consists of NiMH cells, and despite claims otherwise, are still subject to 'memory' like NiCd cells, although somewhat less so. In either case, the batteries (whether in the Insight or your flashlight) last the longest when they are routinely exercised through full charge-discharge cycles, i.e., fully discharged operationally (not flat dead), then immediately followed by a full charge, and the process routinely repeated. Leaving rechargeable, battery-operated devices on constant charge just burns them up. How many of you have had an emergency flashlight or other device that was continually plugged in and charging, but rarely used, turning up non-functional, with dead batteries, when it did come time to use it?

I had a slight jitter, like you describe, but it was caused by my EGR valve, which was plugged.

Reverse gearing in the Insight is quite tall, and even after owning the car for several years, I still appear to be a neophyte, stick driver when backing up, due to the jerking phenomena you experience, too!

Good Luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #25
I had a BumbleBee IMA battery installed in my Insight about two years ago, and I recall it running like a race car afterwards, in comparison to the performance with a 17 year old Honda battery!
My background is in electronics, so what I'm telling you is strictly based on technology. The BumbleBee batteries use higher capacity (ampere-hours) than the original Honda battery. Higher capacity provides longer 'Assist' operation. The BumbleBee batteries use new, matched cells in the 120 cell battery pack (144 V, total), while Honda replacement, IMA battery packs are made up from remanufactured cells. Using matched cells is very important to overall battery life, since in a large, series-connected battery pack such as these, cells in the 'middle' of the battery pack may short internally, not only dropping the output voltage 1.2 V for every shorted cell, but also reducing the amount of current available.

As far as driving the Insight and its impact on the IMA, my mechanic (who is otherwise very knowledgeable) told me when I purchased the vehicle to pamper it, keeping the battery charged. That is actually the worst thing to do, if maximum life and performance is desired from the IMA battery! The IMA consists of NiMH cells, and despite claims otherwise, are still subject to 'memory' like NiCd cells, although somewhat less so. In either case, the batteries (whether in the Insight or your flashlight) last the longest when they are routinely exercised through full charge-discharge cycles, i.e., fully discharged operationally (not flat dead), then immediately followed by a full charge, and the process routinely repeated. Leaving rechargeable, battery-operated devices on constant charge just burns them up. How many of you have had an emergency flashlight or other device that was continually plugged in and charging, but rarely used, turning up non-functional, with dead batteries, when it did come time to use it?

I had a slight jitter, like you describe, but it was caused by my EGR valve, which was plugged.

Reverse gearing in the Insight is quite tall, and even after owning the car for several years, I still appear to be a neophyte, stick driver when backing up, due to the jerking phenomena you experience, too!

Good Luck!
All of this is super helpful, thank you.

Note, I did get the "refurbished" BEELINE option, not the new sticks. However after researching and reading the BB website ad infinitum and talking a good bit with the BB people I was told and convinced that the BEELINE option offered identical performance to their "new" sticks option which is more expensive, the only difference being battery longevity, 3-5 years with the BEELINE vs. 7-10 with the BEEMAX battery option. From their website:

"Each BeeLine IMA Battery has been carefully rebuilt using meticulously tested and reconditioned OEM cells."

I drove two Insights with working IMA batteries before I purchased mine. Not sure about the condition of those cars' batteries but there was no IMA light. In any case my car seems to perform the same as they did so I feel I have a suitable battery. OEM-like performance is good enough for me.

I've ordered a new EGR gasket and plan to clean both the EGR valve and the EGR plate and all the surrounding areas in the next week. We'll see if that fixes my very slight hiccup as described. I also ended up ordering the other 2 mounts so I'll install those eventually and get to see the results of that as well, separate from the EGR cleaning.

Seems everyone is echoing your comment on Reverse, so I've gotten used to just not reversing up any hill when possible.

Thanks again!!!
 

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...The BumbleBee batteries use higher capacity (ampere-hours) than the original Honda battery. Higher capacity provides longer 'Assist' operation....Using matched cells is very important to overall battery life, since in a large, series-connected battery pack such as these, cells in the 'middle' of the battery pack may short internally, not only dropping the output voltage 1.2 V for every shorted cell, but also reducing the amount of current available.
Regardless of whether BB or other aftermarket batteries have higher capacity or not, if you don't hack the management you're generally stuck with the same usable capacity, or same capacity used. In 99.9% of driving, assist events and intervals never come close to exhausting even the programmed usable capacity window, let alone the whole actual capacity...

The car's battery management wouldn't tolerate a shorted cell.

Note, I did get the "refurbished" BEELINE option, not the new sticks...I drove two Insights with working IMA batteries before I purchased mine...my car seems to perform the same...OEM-like performance is good enough for me.
There's only so much the OEM system demands of packs, so if one's pack can meet those demands - that's all the performance you get. OEM packs and aftermarket packs can meet those demands, so buying a new aftermarket pack doesn't necessarily give you performance above and beyond a good stock one...

The one question I have along these lines, though, a question I asked the other day in a new thread, is whether new aftermarket packs can do many full assist (~10kW) events back-to-back without regen. My 18 year-old pack can't do that. It's not something people generally do, but it'd be a genuine performance improvement if good/new stock packs couldn't do that while new aftermarket packs could...
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Regardless of whether BB or other aftermarket batteries have higher capacity or not, if you don't hack the management you're generally stuck with the same usable capacity, or same capacity used. In 99.9% of driving, assist events and intervals never come close to exhausting even the programmed usable capacity window, let alone the whole actual capacity...

The car's battery management wouldn't tolerate a shorted cell.



There's only so much the OEM system demands of packs, so if one's pack can meet those demands - that's all the performance you get. OEM packs and aftermarket packs can meet those demands, so buying a new aftermarket pack doesn't necessarily give you performance above and beyond a good stock one...

The one question I have along these lines, though, a question I asked the other day in a new thread, is whether new aftermarket packs can do many full assist (~10kW) events back-to-back without regen. My 18 year-old pack can't do that. It's not something people generally do, but it'd be a genuine performance improvement if good/new stock packs couldn't do that while new aftermarket packs could...
To discover the answer to your question here would require a good bit of testing with cars having different types of batteries. I think in the end the BEELINE version is a good one for "everyman" to use in his/her Insight.
 
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