This concise description should be bookmarked to provide reference for new list readers. The only suggestion that I would make is to provide links to the issue(s) involved from the InsightCentral encyclopedia.
Hi, Trekker!Insightful Trekker said:BCM Alternator function:
BCM trickle charge is not shown on the SOC gauge (-0- bars) and varies based on the 12v systems electrical load. Its function is analogous to a 12v system alternator in a non hybrid car. The amount of trickle charge of the Insight can be increased by turning on accessories, e.g. headlights or AC, etc. [Thanks for that info Armin]. And can be used to minimize Forced Charge events.
But moving at a constant speed is hardly demanding. I accellerate pretty aggressively usually, but I"m also very concious of fuel usage and maintaining lean burn as much as possible.Insightful Trekker said:<replies inline>
> Also, I used to always get 3 or 4 bars of "trickle charge" when moving at
> a constant speed until the battery reached about 80% of charge. Now I
> usually don't, even when the battery is almost completely discharged.
3-4 bars of charge is a forced charge, by my wording of the definition anyway.
And now you are experiencing no forced charge events even with a low SOC gauge?
Hmmm. A demanding driving style is the only explanation I can think of as an answer.
Ditto. I must confess I didn't read your definition of forced charging at first, because I've always considered it to be the charging that takes place while recovering from a nearly dead battery or recal event where one loses IMA and auto-stop entirely while the BCM gets the battery back up to a reasonable level. Perhaps "phantom charge" would be a better term for the trickle charging that does NOT show on the meter, and "trickle charge" for that which does. Then "forced charge" could be defined as I have above.Armin said:I really don't see any difference between what you call "trickle-charging" and "force-charging", other than in the second case the little green bars light up. The current is the same. When it happens is somewhat unpredicable. But one thing is very predictable: The charge bars will light, if the SoC is 14 bars or less at the time the car has decided to force-charge.
Quite likely. Which actually isn't very good for them.james said:Noticed what seems to be a bit of thermal management going on this morning - the first one I've had to scrape frost off the windshield. Battery charge was also a bit lower than it usually is when I leave home, maybe 4 bars down. Anyway, cruising on level or slight downhills, I'd see it intermittently go to 3-4 bars of charge. Charging usually happens only if I'm decelerating. I suppose it was trying to warm the batteries?
Double-hmmm. I don't know. My guess is that Honda thought along these lines: If lots of 12V accessories are on, we'll need to draw more current from the 144V battery if we go into idle-stop. So let's be a little more aggressive at charging the 144V battery ahead of that.Insightful Trekker said:Hmmm, then why does this hidden charging effectively increase with accessories on?
Triple-hmmm. I never observed the forced charging to go off or be less likely to come on due to 12V loads. Quite the opposite! If my SoC is low and there is no charging, I turn on the lights and voila - a minute later the car is charging!Insightful Trekker said:And is an effective way to prevent forced charging.
Actually, depending on other driving conditions, it can be anywhere between 5A and 10A. Usually with some 12V load it's out 1.5 to 2.5 A more than without.Insightful Trekker said:So this is one of your observations? That this hidden charging is 1A accessories off and 1.5A accessories on (if my memory serves me). And that 2-4 bars indicate the same rate of charge? Hmmm.
No, I'm telling you to get a marker and put little dots at 5, 10, and 15 bars...Insightful Trekker said:14 bars on the SoC! so your gonna make me get my magnifying glasses out and go cross eyed counting all the bars?!?? <g>
Trekker,Insightful Trekker said:I think we're agreeing here. If you anticipate a Forced charge event and turn on the headlights for example then the hidden charging increases and prevents a Forced Charge event.
Now that you mention it again, I do remember noticing that it's harder (if not impossible) to get lean-burn directly after a recal. Definitely in the 2 - 3 or 4 bars range. I never noticed it at fairly high (>10 bars) SoC levels, though.Insightful Trekker said:For more severe events (2 - 4 bars of charge showing) the lean burn window narrows. And my daily measured MPG suffers correspondingly. When I intervene with the headlights on trick before reaching the 14 bar threshold, increasing the hidden charge ( 0 bars still showing) the lean burn window does not feel as narrow, and MPG for this well worn route home measures higher.
Thermal managment? Its not the outside or cabin air temp but the battery temp. There are sensors in contact with most of the cells and in the case.RickM said:Hi guys,
Today while driving on steep short hills, the SOC dropped below 1/2 and again it seemed to really want to charge. The strange thing was that after 30 miles of this the SOC went to 1/4 and when I would come down a hill it would not charge at all. If I hit the gas hafway down the hill and got some assist, then it would begin to charge. This happened several times. Temp about 40. Any ideas? Still averaged over 65mpg.