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Discussion Starter #1
Has anybody removed the dashboard panel, by that I mean the silver-colored trim panel that covers the main instrument display and runs from the FCD button on the left to the hazard light switch on the right?

I took out two screws underneath the top lip but can't figure out what to unscrew or pull on next. It's still in place pretty snugly.

I'm asking because I want to "fix" the idiot power window switches. I'm planning to rewire the "main" switch in order to power the windows when the key is off. That way I can roll the windows up or down without the key in the "run" position and still turn the power off to avoid long-term draining the battery. AFAI can tell I have to pull the panel to get at the wiring in the window control assembly.

thanks in advance,
 

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The simplest mod to enable your desired function on this circuit would be to jumper the power window relay.

Its the relay in the underdash fuse box closest to the fuses (immediately adjacent). When removed (which is needed for this mod) the 2 largest spade terminals are the "switch" contacts. Simply make a _short_ jumper with the same size spades and voilà :!: :) Also easy to remove. ;)

However, you need a milli-amp meter to verify that there is not a significant increase in the resulting parasitic drain at the 12v battery. The power window control unit must be energized for the windows to operate. If the resulting total drain (key off) is 30mA or lower you should be in the safe zone. Else the 12v could go dead overnight. :(

HTH! :)
 

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There are some screws (one on the right) and the rest is held by pressure clips. You need to be very careful. Check out: Body, Dashboard, Instrument Panel Removal/Installation (20-55?)

There are 3 screws and three types of metal clips, a total of 22 in all.

The manual states:

When prying with a flat tip screwdriver, wrap it with protective tape and apply protective tape around the related parts, to prevent damage.

Take care not to scratch the dashboard and related parts.

I'd go for a work around like John suggests. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Kip, thanks. What document are you referring to with:
"Check out: Body, Dashboard, Instrument Panel Removal/Installation (20-55?) " Service manual? I bought an ebay service manual on CD but it looks like both a piece of piracy and a crock. I found the two screws I mentioned, do you know where the third one (on the right) is?


John,
The simplest mod to enable my desired function on this circuit would NOT be to jumper the power window relay, for the exact reason I described in my original post and you repeated. If you have detailed dashboard pull directions, that would be great.

thanks guys,
 

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If you are up for the challenge, PM me and I'll send you a Jpeg attachment with the diagram. Apparently there is a screw under a small trim piece at the right of the right vent. Looks like you have to pry off the trim piece to access the screw underneath.

Just checked, you can pull it off with a cloth protected set of pliers. It has two flexible plastic tabs that hold it in place.
 

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I'm always up to being corrected, but I fail to see how the "trouble" your having is "simpler" than 1 jumper and a relay removal. In addition to the removal surgery your gonna have to disassemble the switch assembly and change the circuit routing on the board.

The "problem" with your desired function is the power window controller and its power on requirements. By passing the controller will defeat the auto down function of the driver's window. And if its not a factor the relay removal and jumper will accomplish all that you desire.

Good luck for a successful modification internal to the switch assembly. :)
 

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John, there's no way I would consider removing that dashboard myself without a really good reason, but the lady wanted the room painted deep pink and there's six cans of primer and paint that can't be returned so..............

On further examination of the dashboard removal I've discovered that the top cover has to be removed off the steering column as well. Three more screws and a dull butter knife is a good start, but wait! To get the top cover off you have to remove the steering wheel. :shock: That entails disabling the air bag etc. which means more clips, covers, and screws.

Possibly the steering column can be just dropped down out of the way by removing the 4 bolts that hold it up onto the slip plate. I haven't checked this out in practice, and you likely need a torque wrench for reassembly.

Moses, I hope you don't mind my sense of humour. I've spent way, way to much time working on a forced auto stop project. I'd be inclined to quit but I'd have wasted my time with nothing to show. Now it won't get done before Hybridfest. Sigh. :(
 

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:lol: Pink......Just a reference to repainting a smoke damaged house. None of the team could believe the colour the lady chose, but that's what she wanted and that's what she got. :shock:

The dash is a major project, but knowing what is involved may help others who need to get access to replace a broken switch or display.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
whoaa, this has sure turned left. :shock:

First, John, I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes. Sometimes in an effort to be clear and brief we often end up sounding harsh. I didn't mean to.

To summarize why I want to do it this way; I want to be able to use the windows from the driver's seat after the car is off but not drain the battery. This, BTW, is a common feature on cars, power windows will often work for some time after the key is off because a lot of people want to stop the car THEN roll up the windows. And unfortunately the autostop in our cars can be a little stupid sometimes, failing to kill the car, or restarting as the driver's foot comes off the brake. And I don't want to have to take care of the car after it's stopped, as much as possible it should be taking care of me.

It's not unusual for me not to use the car for weeks at a time. This way I don't have to put in any additional switches but, perhaps more importantly to me, I get to put that IMHO wildly idiotic "main" switch to good use, killing two birds with one, admittedly complex, stone. This may have more to do with my particular personality disorders than efficiency :roll: but that's OK with me, it's what I want to do. To let you know how much I want to make that gigantic "main" switch do SOMETHING useful I will admit that even if I found out that the window controller were CMOS and drew 0 current so I could leave it on all the time (and that might be true, the door lock controller is hot all the time), I would STILL want to do it my way.

As for the difficulty, I'm not that concerned. Except for finding that screw I'm in pretty good shape. The steering wheel cover is already off, you don't have to remove the steering wheel, you can just loosen the 4 nuts. And I learned something useful doing that, you can shim those 4 studs to adjust the height of the steering wheel. I like a lower mounted steering wheel and now I have one. Last weekend I also took the driver's door panel off and did a wiring trick so that the driver's door key will both lock AND UNLOCK all the locks (passenger door and hatch), the lack of which has been annoying me since I got the car. I don't like to carry the remote, there's already too much junk in my pockets.

The weekend before last I fixed a stunningly weird problem with the EGR valve which had been throwing codes since I got the car earlier this year (along with half a dozen other codes, including the IMA which took a new battery pack under warranty). I took it out expecting to clean it but it was completely jammed. Coil resistance normal, not much carbon, wouldn't move the poppet no matter what. It turned out that it was bent! I disassembled it (thanks to Peter for his terrific post), straightned it out, internally lubricated it, rewired the coil to the terminal, put it back together, re-installed it, and viola, no codes. And, that weekend, I DID the rear wheel cutout concept Bigred floated. I know that's a matter of opinion too, most don't seem to like it, but I like it a lot better, and it's my car.

To summarize: I know what I want to do, I know why I want to do it, I even know almost entirely how to do it, I just wanted to know where the darned screw was. And I do have a sense of humor and I've got plenty of paint.
 

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Sorry moses for putting you to task for such a long reply. But it did clear things up for me. :)

I like the idea of the mod too. But don't feel the need to take out the switch assembly to accomplish it. And since you've verified that the controller being hot at all times is not a battery draining issue looks like a "relatively" easy one too. :) THANKS :!: :)

Sigh, now another mod on my to-do list. ;)

Sincerely,
 

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Thanks for confirming the 4 nut option. I may make use of that myself. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I'm glad any clumsiness on my part didn't result in hard feelings.

Let me clarify one thing, as of now I don't know how much current the window controller draws. It might draw ~0 (like the lock controller) or not, Honda presumedly had SOME reason for connecting it to the "run" ignition position. I have heard of cars that drained the battery running the windows up and down all night after the inside switches got wet.

I don't care because, as Sinatra might have said, I'm doing it my way (whether I need to or not). I'm not letting good judgement infterfere with my enthusiasm, I am unencumbered by the thought process. But it will be way cool when it's done.

But doing this will make it easy to find out how much current the controller uses since I'll be able to turn it on and off without switching anything else (not that an external switch wouldn't do the same thing) and I will be happy to report that if there is interest.

And I appreciate the help I've gotten from everybody. While, at the moment, I don't think I'm making a mistake I certainly could have been.
 

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Well Frank (aka moses ;) ) please don't send Guedo but I have the easiest solution :idea:

Simply wire a momentary push button switch in parallel with the relay contacts. Full normal operation with key on and supplimental operation with the push button with no continous on potential problems. So you can forget about possibly trashing the switch / controller assembly or making the mod "permanent" without this parts replacement (priced one yet :?: ; ) )

Look on my webpage for a pic with the button loaction for my Gauge light's peskiness mod. Another right beside in one of the blanks and its a simple one handed operation. Removal can be a simple unplug operation too.

Don't make this one of the few "regrets, I've had a few, but then again too few to mention". :p

Someone's knocking at the front door... Ok Guedo I didn't mean anything by it it was just another option. I agree "his" way is better. :p

HTH! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The mod's done, using the "main" switch the windows will now roll up (or down) without the key in the ignition. Once I got the last screw out (thanks Kip) everything else was really easy. The dashboard cover came off by hand, without levering, and went back on just as easily. I appreciate the help, and the warning, all things considered it went pretty well.


One interesting thing happened. Because of a scheduled mechanic's appointment for other business I had to drive the car without the dashboard cover back in place, so none of the electrical connections were made. Nothing in the cover looked real important, so I went ahead, and it did drive but the autostop didn't work. It makes me wonder if there is an autostop defeat lying in the dashboard cover wiring somewhere, could come in handy. It's also possible that some important exterior lights didn't work, but the mechanic was close by and nobody got hurt.
 
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