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Repaired + upgraded engine ground wires.

20206 Views 16 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  eq1
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So I noticed awhile back that one of my ground wires was broken that was connected from the transmission to the chassis. Today I got the windows tinted, and while they were doing that, I fixed my grounds, and upgraded them using 4ga amplifier wiring. It should be more than ample to flow the current for these grounds. Two of the three grounds I found were actually broken. I hear there is another ground on the back of the engine, but I could not find it. I replaced the two small 10g wires with one single 4ga. I also replaced the 6ga with 4ga as well. Then I added another from the battery ground location to the location of the sensor grounds shown in the below pic.

After a short drive the engine seems to run more smoothly. I didn't expect much, I just expected to not be stranded someday if the other ground wires failed. I was happy to see it runs smoother, and better. Maybe it might even get better gas mileage. So glad I took the time to do this little project. Oh, yeah the windows turned out good too. Did 5% on big the rear, and rear sides. Left the side glass alone for now. I also removed all the stickers off of the smaller rear window.



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Thanks for those photos !

While inspecting the hope-to-buy-it 2000 MT today I saw a totally unjacketed stranded 6 gauge wire on the right side, with most strands broken. Thanks to your photos I'll know where to look for the others.

Did you just use crimp lugs, or did you solder the lugs on? Is amplifier wire generally jacketed like that (I know nothing about car audio wiring) ?
Thanks for those photos !

While inspecting the hope-to-buy-it 2000 MT today I saw a totally unjacketed stranded 6 gauge wire on the right side, with most strands broken. Thanks to your photos I'll know where to look for the others.

Did you just use crimp lugs, or did you solder the lugs on? Is amplifier wire generally jacketed like that (I know nothing about car audio wiring) ?
Glad this could help you. Good questions. The split loom was added after the fact for extra protection for the wire. As for crimping the ring terminals. I did just crimp them using a hammer crimper such as this one:



You can also solder them as well, or in replacement of crimping. I just crimped it, and called it a day.
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awesome!

That is fantastic! I wonder if Harbor Frieght sells that hammer crimp! I want to do this just to do it since it looks so much sturdier than the OEM setup.

CRX Bart, how much did you spend just on the materials alone? I want to try to complete this one of these weekends for my car.

Back in the day, I installed a Sun grounding system in my Civic, I still have it and it seemed to work quite well. Hopefully I can make one for the Insight too!:D
I paid $0 for this. I used to work at the shop that did my tint, and the owner is a good friend, and didn't mind hooking me up after my years of service. Prices will vary depending on where you go, and the quality of wire. They charge $3/ft for 4ga, split loom is $.50/ft, and 4ga ring terminals are $2ea. So it's not a real pricey project. The crimp tool may or may not be available at Harbor Freight. You will also need a set of heavy gauge wire cutters to make this job easier as well. Which Harbor Freight should definitely have something for that.
Thanks for the info! I'm guessing 3 feet of wire will be adequate or should I get 4 feet?
Thanks for the info! I'm guessing 3 feet of wire will be adequate or should I get 4 feet?
A girl I once knew told me it's better to have too much, than not enough....;)
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I bet 5% looks pretty good, do you have any pictures of the new tint? Dark windows make a nice compliment to the Insight.

Here is how I did my grounds for those interested:


^Power steering rack to firewall ground. Drivers side of engine bay. The yellow pen is there to make it easy to see. Mine was within 0.5" of the length of the air box ground (a close duplicate).


^Tools/Materials required. The heat shrink and techflex are not required and probably of no benefit, just extra I had laying around. There is a shrink tube with a glue liner if you want to get real high class. 5x 6 gauge 1/4" ring terminals were ~$5 (they fit better on my 4 gauge wire than 4 gauge terminals did). I emulated the crimp tool with a (dull) chisel and hammer. You will need 2 total feet of wire for all 4 factory grounds. I recommend using an electrical corrosion/oxidation inhibitor on the crimps & mating surfaces of the terminals ("Noalox" from Home Depot/Lowes). *Not pictured: Hammer, heavy duty wire cutters (tin snips or bolt cutters etc.), 10mm socket/ratchet (preferred to have 12-18" of extension), you could probably get by with just a 10mm wrench; do what you can with what you have.


^A comparison of two different 4 gauge cables. The right cable came from Home Depot. I bent each ~9" length cables tip-to-tip and let them naturally unbend; these are the results. The Home Depot cable is much, much stiffer. Unlikely to be a problem, but for $4 I sourced the "#4 flex-a-prene welding cable"; most welding cable will be comparable. You will need 2 total feet of wire for all 4 factory grounds (I had ~3" leftover)


^Old vs. new cables. Pretty indifferent, aside from the failed repair made by a previous owner; I greatly prefer working with the brazed seam style connectors I used to the pictured blue plastic sleeved connector. If you can only source the latter I doubt it will be an issue.

Reflection:
-This is an easy repair. Give yourself time and you'll be fine, if you can change your oil or your air filter you'll be fine doing this. Don't over tighten if you're worried about stripped threads; ~drain plug tight or a bit more is fine, check them in a week for tightness.

Tips:
*Clean mating surfaces with 60 grit sandpaper. Use an electrical corrosion inhibitor (Search "Noalox", ~$2-3 at Home Depot & Lowes)
*The ground cables need to be long enough to flex back and forth with the movement of the engine (factory length is fine) so don't make them a straight line A to B, the curve is by design.
*Make an effort to source welding wire, or another flexible wire (usually have a high strand count). Home Depot wire would have made for more hassle, though it would have functioned.
*If you're feeling lazy, cheap, or scared, just give your old cables a good yank on the car before you remove them. If they seem solid and in good shape consider leaving them alone or just unbolting them and sanding the mating surfaces clean and reinstalling. Give your new crimps a solid tug before you shrink tube or install them. Give them a tug when they're on the car, make sure nothing is loose.
*The law of diminishing returns applies to the power steering-to-firewall ground. It's probably as hard to do as the other 3 combined (not that it's "hard", it's just in a hard to reach/see area). The outer diameter of the ring of the 4 gauge ring terminals I had was too large to bolt to the power steering rack. The 6 gauge dimension was fine. You could use the 4 gauge but would have to file away material from the outer diameter to make it fit. (The result would be a "D" shape ring terminal)

Difficulty level:
Easy. Low risk of causing a costly repair. Low risk of damage to car or parts involved. Low skill level, with no real negligible effects from a less than perfect repair. You can read about how many people (like myself) were driving with at least one severed ground cable with no noticeable effects.

Cost:
Majestic Honda lists OEM cables ~$8-9/ea.
Minimum cost is 2' cable ~$5. 5x ring terminals ~$5. I reused my negative battery terminal as it was in good shape. You can splurge and get fancy with the aforementioned extras if you'd like, I doubt your engine bay will care :]

Conclusion:
Probably an unnecessary repair which you won't see any noticeable benefit from. A nice way to kill a few hours if you're so inclined.


**Parts sources (Southern California local only):
IPS- Industrial Pipe and Steel, 91733. Wire, terminals, ton of other fun stuff.
Orvac Electronics, 91016. Shrink tube, techflex, about any other electrical supplies you could want. Sells its bulk wire and techflex ($0.50-$2/ft) in 10' or greater quantities only.
Both stores have great customer service and are very friendly.
(Google Maps is a great way to find local suppliers; try "welding supply" and "electrical supply" etc.)
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Hahaha just took another look at your wire and it looks like the same stuff. Must have a pretty good reputation to spread cross country.

Here is a link to diagrams from the factory manual of the 4 ground wire locations for everyone looking for it: http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/216926-post2.html
Nice job Deadpool, I got my materials now I just need to find the time to do it this weekend!
FYI I remember a Power Pages feature in turbo magazine where they put a grounding kit on a 4 cylinder and dyno'd it. It gained between 1 and 5 horsepower clear across the power band. This was on a properly maintained engine with no wiring issues. They seemed to believe it came from better spark and less alternator drag because the electrical system was more efficient. That is likely the source of your added smoothness and the power they saw.
FYI I remember a Power Pages feature in turbo magazine where they put a grounding kit on a 4 cylinder and dyno'd it. It gained between 1 and 5 horsepower clear across the power band. This was on a properly maintained engine with no wiring issues. They seemed to believe it came from better spark and less alternator drag because the electrical system was more efficient. That is likely the source of your added smoothness and the power they saw.
I remember that issue. Good to see a fellow Ohioan on here. :)
Hahaha awesome, you already got the hard part done. What's up with the EG(?) in your avatar? Looks fun.
Yup, thats my EJ2 i bought brand new back in 1995. I've built her up through the years and currently she just sits in my garage waiting to go outside legally, thanks to Cali smog laws...:(
Thanks

My 12 volt it would just click just not start I took it into Honda and paid $100 for them to check the IMA system. They checked other things also of course my IMA was not working and so that creates a problem with the charging the 12-volt battery. From my research I do believe it's because the ECM decides not to create a DC DC charging method. so I think this I thought that was how this all started. Honda also concluded in this check that my starter was not working and also recommended I repair the ground cables. So I bought a new starter and and putting in the new ground cables. We'll see if I will be able to get away without an IMA system. So far I am still getting 67 miles per gallon on the highway without my IMAwith tires at 38 pounds per square inch all four. if interested do a search for cutting a very small wire in the rear battery compartment which will allow the 12-volt battery to be charged even if your IMA is not functioning
Fyi

Here is the link in case you would like to continue charging or 12 volt battery when your IMA system is kaput
...if interested do a search for cutting a very small wire in the rear battery compartment which will allow the 12-volt battery to be charged even if your IMA is not functioning
fyi, you don't cut the green/white DCDC wire to enable 12V charging with a non-functioning IMA; you cut it to prevent the DCDC from being able to toggle into 'low power mode' (~12.2V vs. ~13.8V), which the car does under various circumstances. Cutting that wire helps to keep the 12V battery charged higher, which can be more important when you've bypassed your IMA. But in general, as long as you bypass the IMA, at minimum by pulling a couple connectors on the BCM and turning the pack circuit breaker switch OFF, your 12V battery will charge.
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