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Discussion Starter #1
For those of you who read my last post:

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... highlight=

I SHOULD HAVE SOLD IT! lol, no I love this car and wouldn’t dream of it.

Anyway, my clutch went out along with a censor in the clutch housing. Total cost of repairs, including the sensor, $3,000.00 plus. I don't know why it’s so expensive, especially since I can go on Majestic Honda and buy everything in the Clutch Housing, Clutch Release and Clutch category for only $979.22. And out of all that I’m sure I only need 5 or 6 parts to get it working again.

I don’t have $3,000.00 to burn so I guess this means I’m fixing it myself. Only problem is I’ve never replaced a clutch before. Has anyone had experience with replacing the clutch in their Insight? And do you have any suggestions or concerns?
 

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If someone is quoting you $3000 US to replace the clutch it means they don't want your business, or you came accross to the mechanic as someone who looks like he has deep pockets... LOL

Just get a quote somewhere else, I suspect replacing the clutch on the Insight is not any more difficult then replacing the clutch on a typical FWD japaneese car. Whether you replace it yourself or pay someone to do it, buying the parts from Majestic Honda is probably a good idea.
 

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$3000 is ridiculous. Guillermo is right. That place didn't want to work on it.

Clutch replacement is not an easy job if you don't have any prior experience. I would get a second price.
 

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I just read that you mentioned a sensor was bad as well.

What were your symptoms?

For the clutch??

For the sensor??

I'm always skeptical of a dual failure.
IE: mechanical AND electrical
 

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The question is more related to this recent one here:

clutch replacement cost?
http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... php?t=6080

IIRC there are no member posts outlining the proceedure.

The FSM would be the place to look. AFAIK its little different than a Civic. However IMA component replacement (in the bell housing) may _require_ (absolutely) a special central magnet rotor puller, the "heart" of the IMA motor.

Its strength is so great that removal or reinstallation will be all but impossible without it. And consequential damage (physical & functional) to other nearby IMA components is almost a guarantee if you try.


Seems like we're trying to compair an apples + oranges price. You need to do some more shopping for the clutch repair cost alone to determine if your paying more than the normal dealership premimum.


And there's a recent cost report here:

strange clicking (knocking) sound from the tranny (I think)
http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... php?t=6168
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Sorry I didn’t reply sooner; I changed my email address shortly after posting this topic, and it took longer to reactivate my account then I originally anticipated.

There are some new developments that came up which I think might explain why my quote was so expensive. The first thing is that my oil pan is now cracked. It was not cracked when I towed the car into the Honda service center and they never mentioned a crack to me when I got the car back. But it is obviously cracked because when you let the car sit for more then a few minutes it leaves a rather large puddle of oil. I suspect that they some how cracked the oil pan and then decided to jack up the cost for replacing the clutch to pay for the additional repair. I had the car sitting in my parking garage over night before I towed it to the service center and the oil pan was not leaking at that time.

The second thing is that the clutch isn’t the only part that needs to be replaced; the disk sensor that sits behind the flywheel needs to be replaced as well. The technician at the service center said that the sensor could have been knocked out by debris from the damaged clutch. Because the sensor is part of the IMA, the IMA light is on and the car won’t start off the 144V battery. The IMA error code is T1565 which stands for Motor Communications Signal Problem (or so that’s what they tell me).

Im in the process of getting a second quote and I think im going to have the car towed to another Honda service center to get a second opinion all together.

To answer you questions LoN0x1, the car will only start off of the 12V battery, the IMA light is on and I can’t put the car in gear. When I put the car in gear and let of the clutch, nothing happens. Those are the symptoms.

The cost to buy all the parts online from Majestic Honda is $750.77

Disk Sensor: $132.46
Flywheel: $167.71
Friction Disk: $70.98
Pressure Disk: $110.83
Bearing: $28.64
Oil Pan: $220.33

The cost for buying all the parts from the Robertson’s Honda Service Center in North Hollywood is $1,425.00 and that does not include the oil pan.

Disk Sensor: $444.10
Flywheel: $259.80
Friction Disk: $381.12
Pressure Disk: $246.74
Bearing: $93.24

These prices came from the same Service Center but were quoted from the Parts Department literally feet away from the service desk that gave me the original quote of $1,425.00. Total cost for parts $945.51 and again this does not include the oil pan.

Disk Sensor: $238.43
Flywheel: $307.92
Friction Disk: $133.43
Pressure Disk: $208.34
Bearing: $57.79


I own the title on the car so I’m contemplating getting a small loan out to pay for the repairs.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Wow... The Honda Service Center I was getting a second quote from just called and said that they don't want my business. I wasn't rude to them or said anything that would be out of line, they just said that “if the oil pan is cracked, the IMA light is on and the clutch needs to be replaced, you would be better off having the car repaired at the service center you had the car originally diagnosed from.” They then went on to say that "if we had originally diagnosed the car then we could help you."

I then offered to have the car towed for a second diagnoses at there center and they said no, “we don’t want to work on your car because it has a cracked oil pan, sorry.”

I guess I could try having the car towed to another service center and pretend like I don’t know what’s wrong with it, lol.
 

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That is horrible!

It sounds to me like the second service center didn't want to step on the toes of the first. I suppose you can hardly blame them for not wanting to get involved in what could be a battle.

If a mechanic at the original service center dammaged the transmission the mechanic may not want to admit it to his boss. (The mechanic may not have realised it was magnesium.) The service manager may think you did it, or the tow truck operator did it, etc. etc.....

I'm getting upset just reading about it and I don't know what to suggest, except that it sounds like you would be able to do the oil pan yourself with minimal outlay.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Ill figure something out… I would like to repair it myself, but I guess it’s a little over my head.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
So no one on this forum has ever changed the clutch on their Insight?
 

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Almost everyone (including myself) are still on the original clutch.
If driven properly the clutch should last the lifetime of the car or 300,000+ km of mostly highway driving. (Which means it won't last that long for most people)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
That's probably what got me... I used to do a lot of freeway driving, but when I moved into the city im almost always on the streets or stuck in back to back traffic jams.
 

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the cracked oil pan really scares me.
just magically appeared?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Yes… When the car first broke down I had it towed to my apartment so that I could off load my tools and equipment. It sat in my garage for approximately 40 hours before I had it towed to the Honda Service Center. During that time the oil pan was not leaking.

After the Honda Service Center made their diagnosis of the car, I had it towed back to my apartment where I immediately noticed a leak. I haven’t made any attempts to call the Service Center and officially accuse them of anything because, at this point, they are the only ones willing to even touch my car. Plus I know they will just blame it on the tow truck driver and I know he didn’t cause the damage. For one, I was in the truck with the driver going to, and from, the center and he was ridiculously careful. So much so that I commented on it and thanked him for being so careful. Plus the crack is in a place where the tow truck physically could not have caused that kind of damage.

I think I’ve come to the sad realization that I’m going to have to sell the car or store it until September when I can afford to repair it :( .
 

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Alex
Sorry to hear about your ordeal.
I have had the IMA/transmission out of a 5 speed, to expose the IMA rotor, and it is not much different than any other clutch to replace. With a lift, and transmission stand or a jack, the clutch can be replaced right in the car. We pulled the tranny, and left the engine in the car, and had it apart and back together in 2 hours.
The commutation sensors are also pretty easy to get out once the tranny is removed, but I am suprised that they could have been damaged, since there is a tough plasic shield between them and the clutch area.
The IMA rotor is pinned into the crank, so the clutch and flywheel can be removed without the need to pull the IMA rotor.
Still not a job to try without a lift and the proper tools.
They may have split the tranny and engine, to diagnose the clutch problem, while supporting the engine with a jack on the oil pan, thus breaking the oil pan. Have you crawled underthere to see where it is broken?
Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thank you Mike,

Yes, I have the car up on jack stands and I can see the crack.
 

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I would probably call American Honda. Their number is on the owners section of the http://www.hondacars.com website. They have been extremely helpful for me in the past. They are always interested in hearing about consumers frustrations and anxious to help.
 

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Alexander,

I see you're in LA, like me. Have you talked to Woodland Hills Honda, by chance? If you talk to Adam in the Service Dept., he manages a mechanic named Edgar, who owns an Insight! I get all my repairs done by Edgar now, because not only is he extremely knowledgeable about the car, he is very fast when doing repairs and will often come in under the estimated time (and I won't get charged for the full time, which is rare considering that they have a book that tells them how much time to charge for repairs -- Edgar bills me for actual time!).

It sucks that your oil pan is cracked; I hope you can find a way to make the original dealership pay for it, but somehow I doubt it. :( As far as parts pricing, I have negotiated prices with the Parts Dept. at Woodland Hills Honda based on Majestic's pricing (the dealership can't match the price, but they come close enough most of the time to make it worth not paying shipping costs). Also, if they can't get close enough on the price, I just order the parts myself from Majestic and bring them in to Edgar for installation. (I did this with the SRS and ABS modules after the car was recovered from last year's theft).

Hope this helps,
-fly
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Ok I'm back... I've been in training for the past nine months that’s why I didn’t respond.

So good news! I saved up enough money to pay for the ridiculously expensive repairs and got a dealership to start repairing it. They started working on the car and it turns out there is nothing wrong with the oil pan after all. I guess the original dealership loosened something on the oil pan that caused it to leak. A little tightening and now it’s just fine. They checked the IMA and it turned out that the MCM just needed to be replaced, which they did for free! They also replaced the BCM and ECM for free because they qualified under some recall.

The only thing I had to pay for was the clutch and motor mounts for a grand total of $1,352.79!!
 
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