[elperepat]

Hi!


I'd like to submit a problem I just got with my insight to you all. I'd be glad if you could help me diagnose this to put my insight back on the road as soon as possible.

Insight 2000 Manual Transmission, 85000 miles, seems to have original MCM/battery.



I parked my car in the garage last December, using my other car to prevent cold weather/salty roads damages to my insight. I did start it religiously each month, made a small run in the neighbourghood then parked it again for a 3-4 weeks period. All was fine until the beginning of February, where I found my 12V battery discharged. I had to charge it to start the car. I have no idea why it discharged. I use my insight everyday for a week now. 12V seems to keep it's charge and the voltage is 14.2V while running and it drops to 12.7 when I stop the car, which seems fine. All was working properly until the evening.

In fact, the first symptom I got was yesterday when I backed-up at my home. I noticed the car idled rough in neutral. It didn't bother me too much then. Tonight, when I started the car: IMA started the engine as usual, but engine was idling rough again and the CEL began flashing almost immediately. I have a scangauge plugged in all the time, so I checked the code: P1649. I stopped the car and opened my service manual: ABS Operation Signal Circuit Problem :-/. I started the car again and CEL flashed, but now I had a new code: P0303: No. 3 Cylinder Misfire Detect. I made a small ride in the street. Everything was working properly: IMA assist/regen, ABS seems to work ok too. In fact, the only symptom I have is rough idling and a really strong rotten egg odour I smelled when I parked the car. I feared it was coming from the batteries, so I opened the main breaker in the back and disconnected the 12V battery.


I'll replug everything tomorrow morning and try to start it again. I'll post the results then.

Meanwhile, any idea what could cause these problems?



Thanks

Patrick

 

[Willie Williford]

Check the water level in the 12V battery. Fill and recharge if possible.

Willie

 

[retepsnikrep]

I agree bad 12v battery is my first diagnosis. Also the IMA battery will not be happy with the intermittent use.

 

[elperepat]

Update this morning:

I checked the acid level in the battery and it was a little low. I added about 1/2 inch of water in each hole. I charged the battery for 2 hours.

I switched the 144v breaker back on then plugged the 12V battery. I started the car and it was again idling rough. Check engine was blinking but I was not getting any code. I think we can dismiss the rotten egg odour as it comes from the exhaust after I stop the car and not while running.

I decided to check the spark plugs based on the P0303 I got yesterday. The 3rd coil casing is cracked because the iron core is rusted. I will probably change these 3 and the spark plugs.

Thanks for the help. Any other idea is appreciated.

I'll continue to update this thread when there's development.


Patrick

 

[elperepat]

Ok, I think I found something!

I installed the coils back and swapped the 2nd for the 3rd. I now get P0302 (No.2 Cylinder Misfire) Great! That coil is probably dead. I'll order 3 replacements.


Patrick

 

[joecvt]

Once you said "The 3rd coil casing is cracked because the iron core is rusted. I will probably change these 3 and the spark plugs." I knew that you would figure it out.....You even verified it by swapping coils and the failure followed the coil....There have been earlier posts about rusted coils going out.

If you buy them though Majestic Honda, you will save $30 on each coil
(instead of using the dealership)

Dealership minimum price: $102.70
Majestic Honda online price: $72.92

Here is the link:
Honda Automotive Parts

Spark plugs will be cheaper too but you have to look at your cylinder head to see what letter is stamped by the spark plug. Possible choices are A,B,C or D.....Each letter is related to the 90 degree rotation of the plug when installed and properly torqued.

Savings before shipping cost = $106.65

So even allowing $20.00 for shipping, with three plugs and three coils, you could save at a mimimum of $85 just through online ordering.

(Sometimes dealers quote more than the list price)

(I don't work for Majestic Honda )

After I posted, I just noticed that you live in Canada so I'm not so sure about shipping costs now....You can always call them and ask though.

Hope that helps,
JoeCVT = Just your average CVT owner

 

[Willie Williford]

Good job of locating the problem, and doing a reposting. Especially with what happened. We need more of that. Your 12V is still probably going to need replacing sooner or later because of being run with the plates partially dry. Put that in your memory bank for further reference.
I agree with JoeCVT about some dealers having excessive prices on their parts. (Especially Ca.) If we can help you in any way, don't hesitate to ask.
Good luck and welcome to the forum.

Willie

 

[elperepat]

Thanks to you all!

I will check Monday at the local dealer for the price. Majestic Honda offers great prices, but shipping to Canada with Fedex is a no-no: they charge as much as 50$ only for brokerage fee, not counting customs. I'll contact them to see if they can ship with USPS: They charge only 5$.

Concerning reposting: I read this forum every day since 3 years now. There's a lot of valuable information I could not find anywhere else. But too often, there's a good thread that dies just before the conclusion. It's not as useful then. I try to avoid creating one of those when I post ;-)

With what happened when I bought my insight last spring and what my local dealer did, I rely on you guys much more than them. I don't think I'll go see them again anyway for service. I'll soon post the whole story here. There will be good information too.


Patrick

 

[joecvt]

The 3rd coil casing is cracked because the iron core is rusted. I will probably change these 3 and the spark plugs.

Just curious since I took out my coils last year, were any of the single bolts that secure each coil to the cylinder head corroded so much that a socket would just rotate around the bolt head? I ended up having to drill out 2 out of 3 of them bolts (the one that did come out without drilling wasn't in good shape either).

I have since replaced the bolts and put a metal shield on top to try and direct any moisture away from them coils (to further back by the cat converter).

Not sure if that will help but it was a pain in the butt to get them bolts out and hopefully it will protect the coils from cracking due to rust and corrosion.

JoeCVT = Just your average CVT owner

 

[MN Driver]

Joe, thanks for mentioning that, I'll have to remember to swap out the bolts on my coils after inspecting them to avoid the same thing. Do you think covering them in a good coat of paste wax would prevent some of these fasteners from rusting? I've noticed more rust on the bolts under the hood of my Insight than I have in any other car that I have, and my other car is coming up on 15 years. So far the worst one is on the hold down plate of the battery, but that is due to the battery gassing and the acid getting on it and eating it, I've washed the outside of the battery to take care of that and refilled the 3 low cells. When the weather gets nice, I think I'm going to go on a hunt for rusty bolts and get a good count and swap out the rusties.

 

[elperepat]

Just curious since I took out my coils last year, were any of the single bolts that secure each coil to the cylinder head corroded so much that a socket would just rotate around the bolt head?

No, not that much. They were rusted only on surface. Protecting the coils could be a good idea. Which would be best: a deflector of some sort or a grease coating? Do coils get hot enough to liquify grease?

 

[joecvt]

I went outside to take some quick pics of the metal shield. With the plastic cover still installed, here is what it looks like:

Top view:

Side view (there are side flaps that fold downward):

View with plastic cover removed:

I used the two studs that secure the plastic cover to keep everything secure without vibration. I also used two pieces of metal to make sure no water gets underneath the bracket that goes across the two studs. The metal is overlapped like a roof shingle effect. I probably should have thought of this a few years ago but I never tried to get the coils removed until recently. I am nearing my 105K first spark plug replacement and I wanted to order them ahead of time. I have 102K now so it should be soon.

JoeCVT = Just your average CVT owner