Honda Insight Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So, overall I love my 2019 Insight. There have just been a few annoyances that I can’t ignore and that have been over sights by Honda. The fact that there is a digital speedometer for km/h but not for mph to me is just really weird. On the LX and EX versions of the vehicle you cant have the front reading lights come on when you open the doors. I guess Honda just forgot to put a light switch in. The fact that when you turn on your left blinker the Lane Watch will cancel out anything else you are doing like using hey siri or something like that. I know that it is cold here in Kansas but I have been trying to drive like your average grandma and I can’t seem to do any better than 40mpg and that starting to get to me. I know that it can just be because im in the break in period and im hoping that it gets better. I also don’t like that you cant set and forget the regenerative braking. I don’t know if anyone has these same feelings. Like I said overall I love the car, there are just a few things that I don’t understand.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,877 Posts
I know that it is cold here in Kansas but I have been trying to drive like your average grandma and I can’t seem to do any better than 40mpg and that starting to get to me. I know that it can just be because im in the break in period and im hoping that it gets better. I don’t know if anyone has these same feelings. Like I said overall I love the car, there are just a few things that I don’t understand.
I don't own a G3 so will just be a bit general. Fuel economy is always bad in winter conditions. First, it takes a while for the car to get warmed up, and that costs mpg. In addition rolling resistance is higher, and air is dense. You will do better come warmer weather and after car is broken in. But the car is heavy and has large frontal area so don't expect to get G1 like mpg.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,877 Posts
I would just like to be somewhere near what they are saying the mpg is.
I don't know what temperatures are used for those DOT mileage figures. I might be like ambient room temperatures, around 20C. Cold weather can make a huge difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
I agree on the Regen paddle setting. It should remember the last setting.

I too would like a digital speedometer. I'm surprised it's not made available.

Map lights coming on? Sure, and how about LED interior lights?

Lane watch I can turn off on the stalk. Yes, I like it for lane changing, but want to see my NAV on intersection turns.

It's cold here, and I too was struggling to get 50 MPG...until I changed to BP gas, then I finally broke that barrier at 53+ MPG. Gas quality matters.

The one big thing I'm having issues with is battery charging. I wondered why some people can get 100% charge when I was only maintaining maybe a little over 50%. Lower in most cases. If it is to truly be fuel efficient, I need the battery reserve to top off for times when there is a need for more power. Well I found a way to get it to 100% while parked. Keep restarting the car until the battery is full. But why should I have to "trick" it to charge to full?

And why kick it out of EV Mode never to return unless I keep hitting the EV button? I would like it to charge to full and go back into EV mode without me having to "poke it" over and over again.

I hope some of these issues can be updated with firmware. Regen paddle settings and battery charge to 100% would go a long way to helping out MPG.

Phil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
For those on a quest to reach 100% battery, don't. 100% is as bad as 0%. If the battery is fully charged, there is no place to store further energy. If you stop or have a long downhill, all of that energy is lost! In a perfect world, you want to keep charge somewhere in the middle. You'll then have reserve when you need it along with a place to store incoming energy. Normal/ECO mode kicks EV out/in automatically at/above about four bars (depending on the environment) while sport mode favors a higher reserve (for better acceleration). Trust Honda's algorithms, don't drive like a bat-out-of-hell and anticipate everything. 100% battery is not the key to higher mpg - how you drive is the answer. If you are fiddling to charge your battery while parked, you're getting 0 mpg while doing it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
For those on a quest to reach 100% battery, don't. 100% is as bad as 0%. If the battery is fully charged, there is no place to store further energy. If you stop or have a long downhill, all of that energy is lost! In a perfect world, you want to keep charge somewhere in the middle. You'll then have reserve when you need it along with a place to store incoming energy. Normal/ECO mode kicks EV out/in automatically at/above about four bars (depending on the environment) while sport mode favors a higher reserve (for better acceleration). Trust Honda's algorithms, don't drive like a bat-out-of-hell and anticipate everything. 100% battery is not the key to higher mpg - how you drive is the answer. If you are fiddling to charge your battery while parked, you're getting 0 mpg while doing it.
Sorry, not true. There is nothing wrong with 100% charge. We are not talking about ABOVE 100%. And if you have the reserve built up, you use that for thrust and electric drive. Short cycling batteries is bad for batteries. That is a well known fact. And no one said anything about driving like "a bat-out-of-hell".

Phil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
Sorry, not true. There is nothing wrong with 100% charge. We are not talking about ABOVE 100%. And if you have the reserve built up, you use that for thrust and electric drive. Short cycling batteries is bad for batteries. That is a well known fact. And no one said anything about driving like "a bat-out-of-hell".

Phil
My post was a general post - not directed at anyone in particular. I was not suggesting you were driving like a BOOH. Just a general statement that driving style has more to do with better MPG than anything.

As for short charge, the Insight's EV batteries are lithium ion. Short charging is not an issue as it used to be for past EVs (remember GM's EV1 full-electric that used lead-acid batteries?)
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/do_and_dont_battery_table

My statement about needing capacity for reserve stands. If at the top of a hill with topped-up battery, all the kinetic energy of the descent cannot be stored, and the ICE must take up the energy from the electric engines via engine braking (which is the cause of the engine whine on a downhill with topped battery or which also occurs when the maximum charge rate is exceeded).

A full battery doesn't buy much - maybe a mile of driving. If you have 100% battery, it's not a bad thing, just not something one should go out of their way to get if it costs mpg to do so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
My post was a general post - not directed at anyone in particular. I was not suggesting you were driving like a BOOH. Just a general statement that driving style has more to do with better MPG than anything.

As for short charge, the Insight's EV batteries are lithium ion. Short charging is not an issue as it used to be for past EVs (remember GM's EV1 full-electric that used lead-acid batteries?)
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/do_and_dont_battery_table

My statement about needing capacity for reserve stands. If at the top of a hill with topped-up battery, all the kinetic energy of the descent cannot be stored, and the ICE must take up the energy from the electric engines via engine braking (which is the cause of the engine whine on a downhill with topped battery or which also occurs when the maximum charge rate is exceeded).

A full battery doesn't buy much - maybe a mile of driving. If you have 100% battery, it's not a bad thing, just not something one should go out of their way to get if it costs mpg to do so.
No problem. I do work with LiIon batteries and conditioners at my place of employment. I also work with lead acid and high capacity gel cell power plants for communications. I'm fairly familiar with charging practices.

LiIon batteries DO perform better with full charge/discharge cycles. The chargers we use to condition/re-condition batteries do full cycles to maintain batteries to the fullest life. The problems we see with customer batteries failing, or not meeting life expectations is due to short cycling the charge/discharge. These are expensive high quality batteries, so the chargers do everything possible to maximize life...if you let them do what they are designed to do. The cheap batteries used as cell phone chargers are a different chemistry, and don't like to be held at full charge. I doubt these were used for the 10 year life that these were warrantied for. Internet "experts" are not what I use for engineering. I use the manufactures specifications and specially designed chargers. Believe me, you don not want to short cycle batteries.

Well it will be fun to conduct some controlled experiments on what gets the best MPG. I intend to try everything once the roads clear up. Already thinking of a couple of test courses for the task. Not always easy to do in dense traffic, so it might have to be a slow weekend Sunday morning to get good conditions around here. The idea is to keep it below the power range as much as possible, and see how all these different modes effect MPG. EV only mode is one I want to try the most after seeing someone run that for miles at highway speeds from a full charge. Let the data collection begin! :)

Phil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
No problem. I do work with LiIon batteries and conditioners at my place of employment. I also work with lead acid and high capacity gel cell power plants for communications. I'm fairly familiar with charging practices.

LiIon batteries DO perform better with full charge/discharge cycles. The chargers we use to condition/re-condition batteries do full cycles to maintain batteries to the fullest life. The problems we see with customer batteries failing, or not meeting life expectations is due to short cycling the charge/discharge. These are expensive high quality batteries, so the chargers do everything possible to maximize life...if you let them do what they are designed to do. The cheap batteries used as cell phone chargers are a different chemistry, and don't like to be held at full charge. I doubt these were used for the 10 year life that these were warrantied for. Internet "experts" are not what I use for engineering. I use the manufactures specifications and specially designed chargers. Believe me, you don not want to short cycle batteries.

Well it will be fun to conduct some controlled experiments on what gets the best MPG. I intend to try everything once the roads clear up. Already thinking of a couple of test courses for the task. Not always easy to do in dense traffic, so it might have to be a slow weekend Sunday morning to get good conditions around here. The idea is to keep it below the power range as much as possible, and see how all these different modes effect MPG. EV only mode is one I want to try the most after seeing someone run that for miles at highway speeds from a full charge. Let the data collection begin! :)

Phil
I have the greatest test track for MPG testing - a 100-mile round-trip, non-trafficked country road that I drive daily. I've broken it down by sections and try to increase each. I've been able to see how driving style, temperatures, weather and different fuel brands have effected mileage. So far, I've managed to eek out a 74mpg trip to, and 64mpg trip from, work. Unfortunately, I worked from home the past couple days and missed the single digit temps. It would have been interesting to see how badly the effect would have been. I garage my Insight, so the initial start-up temps would not be a factor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
It's minor but I wish it could be set so that LaneWatch turns off after the right blinker is shut off, even if you pressed the button to start it up. I like to take a peek at the lane before actually putting my blinker on and it'd be nice if I had the option for it to just turn off by itself in that case without having to press the button a second time.

Also Related to the blinker, the Sonata Hybrid rental car I used briefly had the option to select how many blinks the half-way pressed blinker does. I preferred 5 blinks over 3 since it gives you more time to actually switch lanes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
The Insight continuously switches in and out of EV Mode as you drive it. Look at the indicator on Dash and you will see the EV Light come on and off while driving. Reach a coasting speed and take your foot off the accelerator and you'll see the EV light come on. If you don't gun the pedal it will stay on for a while until battery regens to about 50 - 60 % again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Sport mode charges to full, and can be driven in EV Mode to 50% when the gas engine kicks on again. It appears Sport Mode keeps battery reserve for high demand, but you can switch to Econ Mode to spend another 30%. I'm getting long range on EV at traffic speed. Close to five miles in some cases, and that's not downhill driving. The key is to not push it into the Power range.

I love Sport Mode. It works best in hilly conditions. The gas engine doesn't have to work as hard up hills, as the electric motor has more power available to get you over the hill. And Sport Mode with maximum Regen set (which stays where you set it) does great around curvy roads. No breaking is needed in many cases. Just regen deceleration, which recharges the battery faster.

Econ is good on all flat roads, but don't expect power for passing. The gas engine will work harder.

The only mode I have not spent a lot of driving time with is Normal Mode. Maybe that would work well on small hills. But I wish all modes would fully charge the battery. The only one that does is Sport Mode.

Phil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
I love my Insight LX because it is by far the most cost-effective super-low-emissions vehicle on the road today, and it looks like an Accord :rolleyes:

All that being said, the base radio on an LX is kind of a bummer, and the car needs a tint. The seats are nothing to write home about, but overall the comfort is good, and the ride is quiet.

Prior to making the purchase I've had the classic "Toyota vs Honda" internal debate, and I've also driven brand-new Toyota Camry rentals and frankly Toyota sucks. Like everything about a Camry sucks compared to Insight. But this is not a Toyota bashing post, I like Toyota Tacoma too.

For my '19 Insight LX I get 59-61 mpg depending on amount of stop-and-go traffic in my commute (more stopping = higher mpg).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
I love my Insight LX because it is by far the most cost-effective super-low-emissions vehicle on the road today, and it looks like an Accord :rolleyes:

All that being said, the base radio on an LX is kind of a bummer, and the car needs a tint. The seats are nothing to write home about, but overall the comfort is good, and the ride is quiet.

Prior to making the purchase I've had the classic "Toyota vs Honda" internal debate, and I've also driven brand-new Toyota Camry rentals and frankly Toyota sucks. Like everything about a Camry sucks compared to Insight. But this is not a Toyota bashing post, I like Toyota Tacoma too.

For my '19 Insight LX I get 59-61 mpg depending on amount of stop-and-go traffic in my commute (more stopping = higher mpg).
That is really good mileage. I have to work at it a bit in my EX to get 50+ MPG, but I'm a speeder by nature. :grin: I just love going fast, and so does this car. It handles it very well! Mid 40's MPG is usually what I get zooming around.

I didn't even consider a Toyota. The Prius is ugly as sin! :devil71:

Phil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
That is really good mileage. I have to work at it a bit in my EX to get 50+ MPG, but I'm a speeder by nature. :grin: I just love going fast, and so does this car. It handles it very well! Mid 40's MPG is usually what I get zooming around.

I didn't even consider a Toyota. The Prius is ugly as sin! :devil71:

Phil
Yeah I'm trying to stay under 65 mph and with ACC and Lane Keeping the car pretty much drives itself, which reduces cognitive load during commute. Most days I don't even press brake and let the car take me 50+ miles each way on cruise control :D

I keep the cabin at 72 deg F, and since its winter in the Bay Area, the heater is on which forces the engine to be on, but I expect my mpg to go up as outside temperatures go up above 70.

Frankly its so annoying there are other cars and drivers on the road that don't have Honda Sensing and put the rest of us in danger. Every morning there are 2+ car crashes in the Bay Area because people don't know how to drive, and have no business being behind the wheel without some kind of automatic braking and steering control..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Yeah I'm trying to stay under 65 mph and with ACC and Lane Keeping the car pretty much drives itself, which reduces cognitive load during commute. Most days I don't even press brake and let the car take me 50+ miles each way on cruise control :D

I keep the cabin at 72 deg F, and since its winter in the Bay Area, the heater is on which forces the engine to be on, but I expect my mpg to go up as outside temperatures go up above 70.

Frankly its so annoying there are other cars and drivers on the road that don't have Honda Sensing and put the rest of us in danger. Every morning there are 2+ car crashes in the Bay Area because people don't know how to drive, and have no business being behind the wheel without some kind of automatic braking and steering control..
About ACC...Funny you mention that. This is my first car with ACC, and I am seeing a pattern I never considered before. Before I even realize it, I find myself going slower than my set speed when driving behind other drivers. I can go for a couple of miles without realizing it. So when I see a line of drivers in the passing lane going UNDER the SPEED LIMIT, now I think I understand what is happening. Besides being brain dead, these drivers are just letting ACC do everything, including their "thinking". I believe ACC is slowing down our highways. Especially in the passing lanes. Many times I have to resort to passing on the right, or looking for an ACC distance keeping "hole" to get around these turds. This trend of one slow driver slowing down the following (sometimes long) line of ACC drivers is on the rise. This is why I DON'T want self driving cars on the road!

I stick to the old standard of "SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT". I will stay in the right lane as much as possible, and left lanes as little as possible. That seems to be a vanishing concept with many drivers today...especially with Florida drivers. Only in Florida will you see a slow driver in the far left lane doing 30 MPH under the speed limit with their 4-way hazard flashers on when it rains. And you wonder why there are so many accidents in Florida? Luckily, where I now live, most drivers move over, and there are very few accidents. I hardly ever see an accident. Only those with bad tires who hit the guardrails after losing control in winter conditions. Florida was "rear-end" and "rollover" capital. Speeding didn't cause those accidents. Bad drivers did!

So car automation is a nice thing, and can add safety, but can also malfunction in bad weather conditions and make brain dead drivers even more inconsiderate. Now I understand why I have to work so hard to get around these dullards. Car automation is no substitute for being an alert and "in control" driver. :rolleyes:

Phil
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,421 Posts
Believe me, you don not want to short cycle batteries.
Then why does EVERY SINGLE EV, PLUG-IN AND HYBRID VEHICLE MANUFACTURER SHORT CYCLE BATTERIES?

You do understand that 100% battery as reported in the vehicle is not true 100%?

NiCd gets killed with short cycles - induced voltage depression and capacity loss.
NiMH is dramatically more resistant to it, but it still happens.
Pb gets killed with full cycles. Many manufacturers publish cycle life vs. depth of discharge charts. Full cycled Pb usually only lasts 300 cycles. Drop that to 20% depth of discharge, and they can get into the 2000 cycle range. Pb demands that you charge them to 100% to avoid sulfidation of the battery.

You should assess if your knowledge/experience translates to the EV/PEV/HEV world. "High quality, expensive" cells for consumer and non-automotive applications (high current, low resistance) is a whole 'nother world. Unless your experience deals with batteries that are routinely charged and discharged with > 100A dozens of times an hour, then your experience doesn't apply.

Please don't spread misinformation. When cell manufacturers publish charts showing increased cycle life with decreased depth of discharge, you shouldn't argue the opposite.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Then why does EVERY SINGLE EV, PLUG-IN AND HYBRID VEHICLE MANUFACTURER SHORT CYCLE BATTERIES?

You do understand that 100% battery as reported in the vehicle is not true 100%?

NiCd gets killed with short cycles - induced voltage depression and capacity loss.
NiMH is dramatically more resistant to it, but it still happens.
Pb gets killed with full cycles. Many manufacturers publish cycle life vs. depth of discharge charts. Full cycled Pb usually only lasts 300 cycles. Drop that to 20% depth of discharge, and they can get into the 2000 cycle range. Pb demands that you charge them to 100% to avoid sulfidation of the battery.

You should assess if your knowledge/experience translates to the EV/PEV/HEV world. "High quality, expensive" cells for consumer and non-automotive applications (high current, low resistance) is a whole 'nother world. Unless your experience deals with batteries that are routinely charged and discharged with > 100A dozens of times an hour, then your experience doesn't apply.

Please don't spread misinformation. When cell manufacturers publish charts showing increased cycle life with decreased depth of discharge, you shouldn't argue the opposite.
And what are YOUR qualifications to make all your assertions and bold statements?

What do you do for a living?

Phil
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top