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Sorting out a Citrus

10K views 151 replies 20 participants last post by  kamesama980 
Mine does the same thing. LB with any load is really bad. It wasn't the EGR system, TPS, plugs, coils, valve lash, compression, LAF sensor, or ECM. I'm trying cleaned injectors next.
 
@Gasoline Fumes, then hopefully this exercise will help both of us. What specifically happens under load in lean burn?
Bucking or "herky-jerky," as it's been called here in the past. I'll be cruising at maybe 45-50 MPH at 125 MPG, come to a slight hill, give it a little gas to maintain speed, and it'll drop to about 75 MPG and start bucking. Sometimes really badly. Giving it more gas will drop it down to about 50 MPG and it'll run smooth again and begin accelerating. I can't maintain LB on level ground at highway speeds either.

Julian Edgar once wrote that with his aftermarket engine management, he got bucking with too much EGR flow or going too lean. I cleaned the EGR, and even tried completely blocking it with no improvement. So it must be running a bit too lean in LB. I should probably check the fuel pressure, but I haven't yet. I bought an injector cleaner for about the same cost as having all 15 of my Insight injectors cleaned/tested professionally. Haven't done that yet either. Kinda waiting for my new injector seals to arrive. And being lazy!
 
hey sean i can tell you what happens when i tune my silverado too lean and put a load on it.. my knock sensor goes full tilt and pulls all the ignition advance out to save it from preignition resulting in Zero Power Mode.. obviously silverado wasn't designed to do lean burn hence why i tried it lol.
Maybe Insights do that too. Mine will fire ATDC at low RPM and high load. Makes it feel like it's a 6000 lb Insight. I've thought about connecting a knock sensor to the ECM that's isolated from the engine to see what the timing is without knock. And carefully listen to how much it knocks! I should probably clean some injectors first.
 
Could you add more to the thread title? A more descriptive title might be helpful in the future if this thread ends up with some good solutions.
 
NEP is an ECM tach signal output. I don't know what the letters NEP stand for, but the FSM says it's "engine speed pulse." The signal (A19 on the ECM) is sent to the MCM (C15), gauge cluster (A21), EPS (B14), and test tachometer connector (near brake master cylinder).
 
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back to back excellent references Fumes.. were you a librarian in a former life?
Must be nice to have a FSM for this car beings its such an odd/pioneering car from honda. The EPS must need an on/off switch for autostop conditions?..
Never been a librarian as far as I know, but I keep my FSM & ETM handy at all times! They can be found on eBay, if you want a paper copy.

EPS is on and active whenever the ignition switch is on. Except if you start rolling with the engine off, it won't activate until a few MPH. Annoying if you want to coast out of a parking spot!
 
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I bet you are going to find a small vacuum leak in a hose somewhere (based on experience with Volvos, not Insights).

Rubber parts last about 10 years on average. How many of us have replaced hoses as preventative maintenance at the ten year mark?
In my experience, bad hoses are extremely rare on Japanese cars. I'm pretty sure the hoses on my 1991 Civic were original when I had to take it off the road in 2019 due to severe rust. I don't know how they do it, but the rubber seems to last forever. At least that's what I see in NY. A rusted metal line is probably more likely to cause a vacuum leak. Hotter and drier climates might be different.
 
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