Honda Insight Forum banner

61 - 80 of 81 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
666 Posts
Yes, the Autolites worked out perfectly. My best run was 87 USmpg (2.7 l/100km). No issues at all. I tried to install a set for another Insight and I ran into indexing problems. Like most Insights, this one was a "B" orientation and only one of the six plugs I had was acceptable. So I have quite a handful of plugs that might work for another orientation. (I think "C" mostly).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
The open end of the plug towards the non-VTEC intake valve, yes.

Like so:

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. tHE REASON FOR INDEXING IS TO ASSURE THAT THE BEST FUEL-AIR MIX IS BETWEEN THE ELECTRODES. aND THE PRIMARY VALVE HAS THE MOST USEFUL NEED ALTHOUGH SOME HERE MAKE A GOOD CASE FOR OPEN SIDE OF THE GAP HALFWAY BETWEEN THE TWO INTAKES as the photo is. wE'VE NOT RUN A DYNO TEST BUT WILL EVENTUALLY IN THE DEAD OF WINTER.

ps sorry for caps didn't know it was on.
 

·
Premium Member
2001 5S "Turbo"
Joined
·
10,961 Posts
I seriously doubt that a dyno run (indexed vs non-indexed plugs) will show anything.
After all the G1 is not a high horsepower engine.
Maybe if you were useing Methanol or Alcohol as a fuel base. Then you would have to make other changes for it to be benefical.
(My opinion)
Willie
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
7,200 Posts
Yeah, I agree, a dyno run won't show anything.

The plug indexing is for lean burn, not for overall power.

I'd love to see some lean burn dyno runs though. I've always estimated that the engine is producing horsepower numbers in the teens in lean burn.
 

·
Premium Member
2001 5S "Turbo"
Joined
·
10,961 Posts
yeah there is no power, the engine is just going on for the ride.

Willie
Maybe check the horsepower at idle in first gear?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
I seriously doubt that a dyno run (indexed vs non-indexed plugs) will show anything.
After all the G1 is not a high horsepower engine.
Maybe if you were useing Methanol or Alcohol as a fuel base. Then you would have to make other changes for it to be benefical.
(My opinion)
Willie
In the old days there was a measurable difference when carbs were used often 5 hp once and a while as much as 10. Course the engines developed 400 hp and more so its importance was pretty much useful for Daytona and Talledega.
A couple of years ago we did a comparison on a Honda 1600 with injectors and the difference was within statistical limits so we don't believe it makes much difference nowdays. tuning the injectors and spark plugs will make a difference thogh *** much as 3 %. For street, not much, for racing its important.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,399 Posts
Yeah, I agree, a dyno run won't show anything.

The plug indexing is for lean burn, not for overall power.

I'd love to see some lean burn dyno runs though. I've always estimated that the engine is producing horsepower numbers in the teens in lean burn.
I'd love to have that data too, if I had a good chunk of money for testing I'd be finding the lean-burn HP, torque, and fuel usage(for BSFC) from 1000-3000RPM in 3rd, 4th, and 5th gear under 70% load, 80% load, and 85% load. I'd also want an 80% run from 1000-3000RPM in 5th gear to confirm/deny the fuel efficiency of using lean-burn at the same load. It would answer tons of questions about what the ideal operating methods would be for this car. Of course I don't have the resources(i.e. money and connections) to even consider doing it.

I'd be sure to do it with new properly oriented plugs ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
I'd love to have that data too, if I had a good chunk of money for testing I'd be finding the lean-burn HP, torque, and fuel usage(for BSFC) from 1000-3000RPM in 3rd, 4th, and 5th gear under 70% load, 80% load, and 85% load. I'd also want an 80% run from 1000-3000RPM in 5th gear to confirm/deny the fuel efficiency of using lean-burn at the same load. It would answer tons of questions about what the ideal operating methods would be for this car. Of course I don't have the resources(i.e. money and connections) to even consider doing it.

I'd be sure to do it with new properly oriented plugs ;)
Indexing was developed in the thirties for power. Nobody had any idea what lean burn was except if your plugs indicated it your pistons would be burnt in short order. When spark plugs and fuel injected into the intake air had a lot of limitations, indexing was significant on dyno power runs. Well Ok 3 hp, but you have no concept of how hard we worked for 3 hp then.
Nowdays with better spark plug design, much better fuel injection, and camshaft design, indexing is probably close to worthless. Still, I do it just because I'm used to it and theoretically having the open side of the plug gap toward the intake should improve the mixture to iniate ignition. But its probably not.
It would be interesting to do a dyno run if I could control the fuel-air ratio to simulate lean burn but right now I don't except by changing the jets on a carb. Back in the old days as soon as we lost power with smaller jets we went no further. With lean burn light loads are needed in order to accomodate the situation where lean burn is effective and I don't know if a dyno would detect the difference from indexing. My educated guess it would not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
After a ton of serching, this and other threads, for the location of the spark plug mark I finally found it thanks to google search.

I figured I'd post it here for future people searching like I did

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Was searching a little about the Indexing of Spark Plugs and saw there was a post for this year.... if everything is nice and clean, you can see the markings once the plastic engine cover is removed. But if dirty, you would have to know where to rub in order to see the markings. I realized I probably would not even be able to see the markings unless the Coil Pack was removed. But once cleaned then I could see from above.

Enjoy the pics...



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
131 Posts
Was searching a little about the Indexing of Spark Plugs and saw there was a post for this year.... if everything is nice and clean, you can see the markings once the plastic engine cover is removed. But if dirty, you would have to know where to rub in order to see the markings. I realized I probably would not even be able to see the markings unless the Coil Pack was removed. But once cleaned then I could see from above.

Enjoy the pics...



What type of plugs are they, A or B?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
My plugs currently in my car are B plugs, but my engine block calls for A plugs. So potentially I can get better gas mileage by switching to A plugs.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
765 Posts
Before I open an new thread about spark plugs...

I'm reaching 100k miles soon and think about extending the use of the spark plugs. I don't see why I should mess with them as the car runs great and fuel economy is excellent. Would 125k miles be possible on a hypermiled car or would you talk me out of it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
Before I open an new thread about spark plugs...

I'm reaching 100k miles soon and think about extending the use of the spark plugs. I don't see why I should mess with them as the car runs great and fuel economy is excellent. Would 125k miles be possible on a hypermiled car or would you talk me out of it?
Just change them when you can as preventative maintenance. They are probably fine currently, and might be fine for another 50k or more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,162 Posts
You might try buying new ones, swapping them in, and seeing if they improve performance. If they do, keep them. If they don't, swap the old ones back in and keep the new ones as spares... Fresh plugs can seemingly make a difference 'at the margins'. I used to ride a little Honda Metro scooter, where every ounce of power could be felt at the top end, wide open throttle, top speed. Replacing not obviously worn plug could make the difference between something like 38 mph top speed and maybe 42 mph top speed. So, similarly, maybe there's a difference to be had with fresh plugs on the finely tuned Insight?...
 

·
Premium Member
2001 5S "Turbo"
Joined
·
10,961 Posts
As long as the gap isn't too wide and the coloring is right, leave them alone. I went over 200K in a set of plugs in the LRR.

HTH
Willie
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
765 Posts
I'm very glad I've checked them. Two coils looked suspicious, 'rust' and debris from where? While unscrewing the spark plugs the ones below the suspicious coils came off by hand!!! No wrench needed, certainly no good. It looks like they loosened themself and reminded me of the recent KABOOM story of someone where a spark plug went bad. So the 'rust' and debris are residual of combustion gases. It recalls me of a problem in the early S2000 models where there was a recall to address this problem.

The plugs were fine (to me). 1.1 mm gap. What do you think?

Again, I'm glad I've checked them and will check them with every oil change.
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
2001 5S "Turbo"
Joined
·
10,961 Posts
Good job. They looks about right.

HTH
Willie
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
765 Posts
I'm going to degrease the seat of the plug and the hole to prevent them unscrewing themselves and going to use them for the next couple of xxxxx miles.
 
61 - 80 of 81 Posts
Top